Trading as profitable as it used to be?

AbsoluteZzZero said: "Hey, Im new to the day trading scene. Im at the education/trying to get capital phase. Hopefully Ill have a sufficiant amout of capital by the time Im out of college! But thats not the point of this thread. I have been reading a few books from the year 1996-2000. There are interviews of very good traders, and they talk about having $10K-15K days! I realize that these people are the greats and they have uber amounts of capital. So, lets say that since theyre the best in their field, an average person could make 1/3 of that(5K). With the right amount of experience and a sufficiant amout of capital could one still make that much in todays economy? Thanks!"

thezster said: "With sufficient capital (that means a bunch), a little smarts.... anything is possible... Remember though... nobody tells you about the "lost $15000 days".... You can make money in the market today, yesterday, tomorrow.... and......... you can lose money today, yesterday, tomorrow... I guess what I'm trying to say is.... don't be taken in by a few books. Making consistent money in the market is work, perserverance, capital, and an iron stomach. It's not just a matter of placing a trade or two and heading to the yacht for dinner/drinks."

AbsoluteZzZero said: "Yeah, I realize that trading isnt make a few trades and head to the yacht. I was just wondering if making 10K in one day is still possible in todays economy. I [I]know[/I] that its still possible to [I]lose[/I] 10K. :p"

bennettbike said: "well if you had a 50 thousand dollars and bought a stock for 10.00 a share, and by the end of the day it was 12.00 a share then you made... ... using calculator... you made 10 thousand dollars. this will not happen to you, what are you in college for?"

AlfredSokol said: "If you have enough capital, I'd say yes. But you need serious money to trade that way."

AbsoluteZzZero said: "[QUOTE=bennettbike]well if you had a 50 thousand dollars and bought a stock for 10.00 a share, and by the end of the day it was 12.00 a share then you made... ... using calculator... you made 10 thousand dollars. this will not happen to you, what are you in college for?[/QUOTE] I still have two years of highschool. Never too early, right? :D So I have 6 years to educate myself and save up capital. Im hoping to go for either economics or financing, something in that area."

AbsoluteZzZero said: "[QUOTE=AlfredSokol]If you have enough capital, I'd say yes. But you need serious money to trade that way.[/QUOTE] What would you consider serious money?"

AlfredSokol said: "Probably $60-80K in play every day would be enough. But let's face it, even if you traded a $6-10K account daily, you can make money. As long as you limit your losses strictly. Money management is the key whether your account is big or small."

thezster said: "I play daily with about $500K......... but rarely, if ever have picked up $10K in a single day. $3K - $4K, sometimes.... But those are the true exceptions to the rule. I'm happy with any profit, regardless of how small....... However - it should be stressed that, IMO, I'm a strictly amateur trader.........."

AlfredSokol said: "So, Thezster, what type of profits do you normally look for?"

thezster said: "I've never really figured it out before... but: I'm happy with a 25 - 30% return on my money (after commissions and before taxes) on a yearly basis. That allows me to maintain my current lifestyle. As I average around $13000 in commissions per year...... that works out to (if my math is correct with only 1 cup of coffee) "about" - $180 profit on an average buy/sell. Obviously I don't "swing for the fence", but try to maintain a modest $400 - $600ish profit/trading day. I rarely spend more than $100K in any single stock at one time - in fact, I rarely spend my "total limit" in any single day - but try to leave at least half of it in reserve for what I see as "unexpected and outstanding events" during the day. I don't claim to be "good" but simply lucky for the past 6 years of trading. My methodology has been termed "foolish/stupid" by the forum "expert" a few times and I don't doubt it appears so to "technical traders". However, it works for me and my "KISS" approach."

AlfredSokol said: "Nothing wrong with hitting singles and doubles all the time. How do you make sure you protect the downside? I assume you monitor the trade the whole time you're in?"

thezster said: "No... I usually set my "buy point", put in a limit order... and go play with the dog.... check the screen every hour or so.... sometimes more frequently. If it executes, I set my "sell point"... and go wax the boat or something equally exciting. Again, I check the screen on a regular basis...but not constantly. I play stocks that I feel are absolutely (as much as they can be) secure. If my pick continues to go down in value,,,, I simply hold it until it rebounds. With few exceptions, this has been a solid play over the years. I feel I'm protecting the downside by only playing solid bricks n morter companies that I can touch. Over 6 years I play the same 5 or so stocks.... rarely deviating. I feel safe knowing, for example, that BUD/HD/LOW/CLX/RCL will - sooner or later - come back.... I've never had to hold a stock longer than 2 months before it rebounded to, at least what I paid for it.... or more.. Amateurish - non-technical - Yes... But it works for me. I started 6 years ago with a $10,000 margin account. Retired 3 years later.... and solely survive on my "lucky picks".... I can't afford to buy the yacht... so I rent one a couple of times a year instead. ;)"

thezster said: "They're nice... but, unless you've Mega bucks.... are a hole in the water into which you throw money. I anchored my 43ft rental next to Ted Turner's "Georgia" last Spring in the BVI's - 100+ft with a yacht tender/dingy that puts most recreational boats to shame..... A hired crew of 9 college students plus Captain.... My Gawd... what a boat..... Damnded thing zipped by me like I was standing still on the way to the anchorage...... Now - that's money!!!"

AbsoluteZzZero said: "[QUOTE=thezster]I've never really figured it out before... but: I'm happy with a 25 - 30% return on my money (after commissions and before taxes) on a yearly basis. That allows me to maintain my current lifestyle. As I average around $13000 in commissions per year...... that works out to (if my math is correct with only 1 cup of coffee) "about" - $180 profit on an average buy/sell. Obviously I don't "swing for the fence", but try to maintain a modest $400 - $600ish profit/trading day. I rarely spend more than $100K in any single stock at one time - in fact, I rarely spend my "total limit" in any single day - but try to leave at least half of it in reserve for what I see as "unexpected and outstanding events" during the day. I don't claim to be "good" but simply lucky for the past 6 years of trading. My methodology has been termed "foolish/stupid" by the forum "expert" a few times and I don't doubt it appears so to "technical traders". However, it works for me and my "KISS" approach.[/QUOTE] With $500K why dont you become more serious in your trading and make some more money? I know that I would want to do that if I had that kind of capital!"

bennettbike said: "so he doesnt loose his capital how do you think he got it, over time."

thezster said: "You're exactly right! When you make a living off of your capital.... you do not risk it any more than necessary...... I'd hate to have to go out and get a job! What would my dog think??????? :eek:"

AbsoluteZzZero said: "[QUOTE=bennettbike]so he doesnt loose his capital how do you think he got it, over time.[/QUOTE] If he lives off of his capital it seems to me that it would take a LONG time to reach 500K with 25% returns. But maybe Im missing something. Most likely."

thezster said: "Currently lives off his profits... Big difference. Not trying to mislead you... (heck, not trying to lead you at all)..... my first 3 years were fairly good.... averaging 25 - 30%.... At which point I "cashed in" some other areas of personal wealth - so to speak - to give me enough capital to live off of.... assuming I could continue my trend. As I've said... I'm lucky to date.... managing to eke out a living on what I've got. Some of my yearly profits pay my expenses... some goes to making my capital grow.... Heck... I've got to get it high enough to live off of a conservative investment - so I won't have to spend up to 3 hours a day "working in front of the puter screen"...."

AlfredSokol said: "It's a tough nut to crack: to pay all your bills and have enough capital to trade full time. But let's face it: people are doing it all the time these days."

thezster said: "Good day today - Market is strong and my picks went well... Did one of those rare and gratifying $3500 dollar mornings.... Only problem.... now I'm totally in cash..... and can do nothing but wait for a "bear day" or two to get back in............. Guess I'll go carve a few pumpkins while I wait... Happy Halloween to all :eek:"

AbsoluteZzZero said: "[QUOTE=thezster]Good day today - Market is strong and my picks went well... Did one of those rare and gratifying $3500 dollar mornings.... [B]Only problem.... now I'm totally in cash..... and can do nothing but wait for a "bear day" or two to get back in.............[/B] Guess I'll go carve a few pumpkins while I wait... Happy Halloween to all :eek:[/QUOTE] Could you explain to a n00b what that means? Ive seen people talking about it, but I dont fully know what it means. :confused:"

thezster said: "Sold every stock I owned today... nothing left in my accounts but cash.... not a bad thing to be sure.... but it won't make me any money sitting in a piddly sweep fund until I can find something to reinvest in... Market is "up". Since I "buy low, sell high".... I have to wait for something I like to get back "low"..... Besides... having cash laying around makes me wanna go out an buy something....."

thezster said: "Still own a few hundred of this n that in my "long term".... Didn't want to mislead........ sorry!"

AlfredSokol said: "Cash can be very comforting."

Jibsta said: "You should just buy a 2.5 million dollar apt building and stop sweating over stocks all day. :P"

thezster said: "[QUOTE=Jibsta]You should just buy a 2.5 million dollar apt building and stop sweating over stocks all day. :P[/QUOTE] Been a landlord before - you can have it.... As for "sweating over stocks"..... I get up before the market opens (7:30am my time) - and see what's going on - and set up my orders. Then I make coffee, read the paper, play with my 2 year old daughter - while I check my screens about every half hour or so..... If things are "popping", I might actually sit in front of a screen for 10 - 15 minutes at a time..... Otherwise, I play with the dog, go shopping, add to this forum, etc., during the business hours of the day. Unless, of course, it's a boring day, at which time I go fly fishing in one of the local mountain streams (Northern Colorado at the base of the mountains) until just before market close (gotta get a last shot at opportunities). It's a tough life - but someone has to do it..... Oooops, gotta go - my daughter is pissed cause Winnie the Pooh is over..... :D :D"

Jibsta said: "I know i know i was mostley making a joke but you gotta do what you love, for me it is real estate in the long run :)."

thezster said: "Which is a long, slow - but extremely steady and profitable endeavor. Good luck with it... wish I had the patience to deal with tenants... (ex slumlord sentiment)...."

Jibsta said: "The only reason i love it so much is because my dad is a commercial broker and i have met all his clients worth 100s of millions and being around those kinda people make you want to get into it."

Jibsta said: "Btw their is only 1 kind of building i or my family would ever buy: Small town majority senior population , then you dont have the problems you speak of, just like stock the key to real estate is knowing when to sit in cash and wait for the perfect building. (Unless your one of the monster players who just buys everything and makes it profitable with force lol)."

HappyHarry said: "Jibsta, you have to be a "people person" to succeed in real estate, don't you?"

Jibsta said: "Well sorta, being a complete dickhead wont work, but you dont have to be lubby dubby either. You higher agood super and let the building make you money, you dont deal with problems, he does. Unless they are serious like a bad roof in which case you didnt buy the right building."

AbsoluteZzZero said: "Jibsta, Do you buy fixer uppers then fix then up and rent them? Or just rent nice houses? Do you fix houses up and then sell them? One of my parents friends does that part time and it seems like he makes some good money. I just looked at how many times this thread has been viewed.....1,024 times!!! Holy cow!"

Jibsta said: "We buy apt buildings not houses. And we only buy buildings as close to perfect as possible."

AbsoluteZzZero said: "Why only apt buildings? Is it only the difference in price? Or are there other pros for apt buildings?"

Jibsta said: "Houses are small time. Why buy a 300,000 dollar home you can rent to 1 or 2 people when you can buy a 1.5 million dollar building you can rent to 35 people."

HappyHarry said: "So the leasing agent handles all the BS?"

Jibsta said: "Well we buy buildings full of seniors their rarley is any bs, but we are not big enough to have a full time staff other then the supers. So we or them handle it. but for example, [url]www.gotransglobe.com[/url] who i worked for a summer job has about 200 staff a call center and tons of leasing agents etc, but then again they own 10,000 units in canada lol."