• Stock Market
• Stock Investing Blog
• Trading Options
• Forex Trading
• Options Trading
• Bonds and Mutual Funds
• Stock FAQ
• Stock Market Basics
• Fund Information
• Investor Definitions
• Stock Market Forums

• Stephen Cooper

Home >> Stock Forums >> SPX Iron Condor Feb07

SPX Iron Condor Feb07

holzie said: "Yes, it is the time again - 40-50 days till February expiration. So today was time to sell another IC on SPX. - 1 SELL FEB07 SPX 1460 CALL + 1 UY FEB07 SPX 1470 CALL -1 SELL FEB07 SPX 1370 PUT +1 BUY FEB07 SPX 1360 PUT ------------------------------ CREDIT: $350.00 BP EFFECT: -$650 ($1000-350) MAX PROFIT: $350 - (4*$1.50 COM.) = $344.00 --> 34.4% MAX LOSS: $1000 Our January condor is doing great so far, and we have not even come close to being threatened. Theta decay REALLY picked up starting this week as the market been dancing around 1410-1430 mark. This is really what we want to see with our January condor. As we will be entering 2nd and 3rd week of January, perferably the week before expiration, we will be looking to close the position at least at one end. As of now, the 1465/1470 spread is trading around 0.35 debit (remember we collected 1.10 ($110) credit we will put in a standing order to buy the spread back at 0.20 debit ($20). With current time decay, this should happen by Friday or early next week. Why are we "spending" $20 to buy back our position when we are in an ideal range? The reason is [B]risk management[/B]! Why keep all the upside risk for 2-3 more weeks for 20 cents ($20)? Also, remember that we made most of our credit money on the call side. The credit we initially received from our put side was miserable 0.25 ($25), which we will try to buy back for 0.15 debit (currently 0.25). This will eliminate our downside risk on a ridiculously cheap wing to begin with, and let us walk away with 65% of our max.profit 2 weeks early. $135 - [$12 commiss. + $20 + $15] = $135 - $47 = $88 -->88/135 = 65.18% The yield would be $88/365 = 24.10% in 3 weeks and the market didn't force us to break a sweat once..theta did all the work. I know that $88 is not that exciting but I traded 10 contracts as opposed to a 1 contract in the January example. So if I walk away with $880 bucks on a $3650 risk in 3 weeks I say it is better than a sharp stick in the eye. Another reason I opt to close early is that the current January premiums don't give me much room to manuever out of a endangered position. If I was to buy back a threatened wing and rolled it up let's say 20 points, I wouldn't hardly get anything for additional credit to offset my one sided adjustment. The new February condor gives me a lot of room to manuever. I received a nice credit for both sides and I don't have to worry about expiration. Theta is working at a very decent pace in my favor as well. Every day I will check if any of my wings can be bought back for 20 cents or less and if so, I will do it, to tighten the noose, decrease risk and take some profits of the table. There is no reason why I can't resell the bought back leg for additional premium at a different strike if the market moves. As usual, I don't have an opinion about the market's direction for the next 3-4 weeks but I have a lot of room to adjust. This is how I like to do most ICs in rough market...and a rough market for an IC is a trendy market. Some will argue that ICs are not that good in this type of market but I say they just want to take the "couch potato" approach, put on a condor and sit on it till expiration. That doesnt work for me very well. First of all, I would get bored, and mainly I am very afraid of taking risk when I don't have to. I lost a lot of money in options my first year chiefly due to poor risk management. I paid my "tuition" but it would be stupid to pay for the same class twice. Holzie."

Rbreb13 said: ":th_dblthumb2: Good stuff holzie!"

holzie said: "Let me make a correction..my head was somewhere else I guess: - 1 SELL FEB07 SPX 1460 CALL + 1 UY FEB07 SPX 1470 CALL -1 SELL FEB07 SPX 1370 PUT +1 BUY FEB07 SPX 1360 PUT ------------------------------ CREDIT: $350.00 BP EFFECT: -$650 ($1000-350) MAX PROFIT: $350 - (4*$1.50 COM.) = $344.00 --> 52.92% MAX LOSS: $650 ------------------------------------------------------ With a close to 53% yield this may not look like a conservative condor but in a way it is. If you use Feb expiration probabilities, yes, the range is much wider. But I used Jan07 expiration plus about 2 weeks. The large initial credit gives us a lot of room to strongly profit even in a case of adjustment. The condor is far out and that's about as conservative as one can get. The reason I like to play 5-7 weeks out, even with slightly lower time decay, is that the premiums tend to hold up towards where the market is going, but drop sharply on the opposite leg, which gives me the opportunity to close the cheap leg very early, realize the initial premium sold, and resell the leg higher/lower for more money. Sorry about the initial typo in max.risk and max.profit. Holz."

Handy Chandra said: "Dear Holzie, After long time internet connection down, today I can read your analysis of IC. Would you share how to set the entry rationale of this Feb IC trade, especially to find the resistance and support for IC ? Using 1 SD (Linear Regression Channel) from TOS software ? Would you share if I can find it free from the net ? :) Thanks and regards,"

holzie said: "[QUOTE=Handy Chandra]Dear Holzie, After long time internet connection down, today I can read your analysis of IC. Would you share how to set the entry rationale of this Feb IC trade, especially to find the resistance and support for IC ? Using 1 SD (Linear Regression Channel) from TOS software ? Would you share if I can find it free from the net ? :) Thanks and regards,[/QUOTE] Sorry for not getting to you sooner, I missed your reply. Yes, I used 1 STD on the up side and 1.5 on the downside, I believe. I will post a post here in a minute that will explain why I wish I used more room on the upside vs, the downside in a trending market. I don't know where you can find a probability calculator, but you can use the option's delta to kinda "gestimate". A delta of (0.10) will get you a 1 STD. Most people use the deltas anyways, so a delta of "ten" will get you one standard deviation, and a delat of .06 or 0.07 will get you about 2 strikes outside 1 std. In this fashion, a very conservative way to play this is to adjust when the [B]delta of your short option hits 20-25 (0.20-0.25)[/B]. Personally, I buy 10 deltas (0.10) and adjust at (0.35-0.40) -- [I]however, this depends on how much time I have! I don't care about delta when the SPX is trying the YTD highs, if I am short 1460 call I will adjust at 1450. I will resell 1480/1490[/I]. Got me? Ask if you need to. Holzie."

bklambco said: "To keep the math simple using 1 contract -1 SPX FEB07 1470 call -2.65 +1 SPX FEB07 1480 call +1.35 credit (1.30) -1 SPX FEB07 1390 put -5.00 +1 SPX FEB07 1380 put -4.00 credit(1.00) credit (2.30) :dazed052: Premium Prices were swinging up and down bit today was able to catch a good up and down. I could have gotten a 1380,1370 for about .80 I think that would be a little safer. :lamer:"

holzie said: "[QUOTE=bklambco]To keep the math simple using 1 contract -1 SPX FEB07 1470 call -2.65 +1 SPX FEB07 1480 call +1.35 credit (1.30) -1 SPX FEB07 1390 put -5.00 +1 SPX FEB07 1380 put -4.00 credit(1.00) credit (2.30) :dazed052: Premium Prices were swinging up and down bit today was able to catch a good up and down. I could have gotten a 1380,1370 for about .80 I think that would be a little safer. :lamer:[/QUOTE] So you are in, right? If so, let's keep our condors updated in this thread for future reference. I would like to say for posterity but Darren likes to delete our option threads (hint to Darren :) ). Holzie"

holzie said: "Tried a new thing today, but with real money. Over the weekend I was trying to figure out how to offset the cost of possible roll up of the 1460/1470 calls. I initially received a 2.30 credit for this spread but according to my calculations, if the SPX went to 1450, at which point I would be rolling no matter what, the cost to close the spread would be 3.30-3.70 minus new lower credit received for reselling higher (1480/1490). I was trying a lot of things until I simulated (using the TOS software) selling an ATM butterfly 1425/1430/1435 for a 0.75*2=1.50 credit. First thing that I noticed was that my buying power requirements/effect did not change at all. Since this was done on the same position, it was within the total risk of the condor. When I forwarded the P/L graph till expiration, 2/16/07, I had a big "V" in the middle of my condor, meaning I had total of 4 strikes to worry about at expiration. That would have been a huge drawback. But I like to buy my condors back 1-2 weeks prior to expiration anyways so I forwarded to 2/2/07 and I stuck the SPX right at the worst possible place for the fly, 1430, and the loss was not even 0.20 ($20). But if the SPX was at 1450, the fly was showing additional profit of 0.93 ($93). So after hours of going back and forth and determined that the ATM fly I sold would indeed act as an insurance in case the market ran to 1450 and beyond. If it didn't, the insurance would cost me 0.20 of my 3.50 credit (note: if I close early I will be probably taking only 2.80 to 3.00 of the total credit..not the full 3.50). Needless to say, I got filled today at 0.60*2. As a habit I immediately put in a buyback order for .20 debit. When I came home, I was filled. So I pocketed 0.40 per contract for the fly. So I kinda made my "insurance" money. What is sort of scarry to me is that I didn't expect the ATM options to be so volatile. But I still would like to have to fly on so I will try to sell it again tomorrow for .60 credit. Bottom line, it seems that if you trade condors, which you don't let expire, you don't really take on any additional risk by getting additional credit with a ATM butterfly. Any thoughts? Holzie."

bklambco said: "Yep I'm in, now, watching time burn. Liked todays Market SPX did not go anywhere hardly, But Premium jumped all over the place. I will put in day orders to buy back at .20 or less, never know it could happen in a hurry. IB does not let you put in GTC on credit spreads they say the exchange does not allow that. TOS must be allowing GTC by doing it in-house. [QUOTE=holzie]So you are in, right? If so, let's keep our condors updated in this thread for future reference. I would like to say for posterity but Darren likes to delete our option threads (hint to Darren :) ). Holzie[/QUOTE]"

bklambco said: "Wow this is neat. Mostly just condors, credit spreads and directional call/puts once in a while. Never tried the Buterfly, Will have to read up on it, my understanding is buterfly requires you to be correct on market directoin to a certain degree. What I am interested in is ways to to control risk once you are in a position. So far have done Rollup, Close out early 10-5 pts from strike. Have not done a hedge I hear SPY would make a good hedge for SPX. I think you would buy a direct call or put SPY ATM in correlation to SPX for the same number of contracts for the side call or put side of the condor that needs the hedge. Has anyone tried this? What is a good book on controling risk once in a position? Options Handbook? [QUOTE=holzie]Tried a new thing today, but with real money. Over the weekend I was trying to figure out how to offset the cost of possible roll up of the 1460/1470 calls. I initially received a 2.30 credit for this spread but according to my calculations, if the SPX went to 1450, at which point I would be rolling no matter what, the cost to close the spread would be 3.30-3.70 minus new lower credit received for reselling higher (1480/1490). I was trying a lot of things until I simulated (using the TOS software) selling an ATM butterfly 1425/1430/1435 for a 0.75*2=1.50 credit. First thing that I noticed was that my buying power requirements/effect did not change at all. Since this was done on the same position, it was within the total risk of the condor. When I forwarded the P/L graph till expiration, 2/16/07, I had a big "V" in the middle of my condor, meaning I had total of 4 strikes to worry about at expiration. That would have been a huge drawback. But I like to buy my condors back 1-2 weeks prior to expiration anyways so I forwarded to 2/2/07 and I stuck the SPX right at the worst possible place for the fly, 1430, and the loss was not even 0.20 ($20). But if the SPX was at 1450, the fly was showing additional profit of 0.93 ($93). So after hours of going back and forth and determined that the ATM fly I sold would indeed act as an insurance in case the market ran to 1450 and beyond. If it didn't, the insurance would cost me 0.20 of my 3.50 credit (note: if I close early I will be probably taking only 2.80 to 3.00 of the total credit..not the full 3.50). Needless to say, I got filled today at 0.60*2. As a habit I immediately put in a buyback order for .20 debit. When I came home, I was filled. So I pocketed 0.40 per contract for the fly. So I kinda made my "insurance" money. What is sort of scarry to me is that I didn't expect the ATM options to be so volatile. But I still would like to have to fly on so I will try to sell it again tomorrow for .60 credit. Bottom line, it seems that if you trade condors, which you don't let expire, you don't really take on any additional risk by getting additional credit with a ATM butterfly. Any thoughts? Holzie.[/QUOTE]"

Corey said: "This post is absolute gibberish to me. Keep up the good work! :th_dblthumb2:"

bklambco said: "Your posts say that you code, you ought to know what gibberish is. I have been coding for 25 years now coding is gibberish stuff You should get a book/class on options spread trading or something so it does not sound feel so gibberish. :signs053: You can not learn by just reading a forum, or some newspaper you have to do your home work up front.[url]http://www.superiorinvestor.net/images/smilies/sad010.gif[/url] :sad010: [url]http://www.superiorinvestor.net/images/smilies/wave.gif[/url] :wave: [QUOTE=Corey]This post is absolute gibberish to me. Keep up the good work! :th_dblthumb2:[/QUOTE]"

holzie said: "Good point bk :) Alright, update in our Feb07 condor. Things are looking good in the hood so far. This weekend is again a freebie for us..theta doesn't stop working even when you sleep or markets are closed. If you traded this with a lot of contracts, you could have skimmed some profits on the put side. We received 1.20 credit for it, and you could have bought it back for 0.50, netting 0.70 to put some food on the table. You could have resold the 1390/1400 or double the contracts of 1390/1395 for a 1.10 credit. I did neither. Instead I bought a 95/100/105 butterfly on IBM for 2.15 debit and lost 1.90....I just didn't think a giant like IBM would loose 4-5% in a day....but it did. This loosing trade was very tiny so my profits for the month should still be very decent if the condor behaves. I will be looking to close this trade in the week of 2/9/07 for 2 reasons. First, I will receive a way better credit on the March SPX contracts, which will give me a lot of room to wiggle. Second, trying to get out of an SPX spread in the week of expiration is nearly impossible unless you give up a lot of money. So overall you will come out better shifting everything by 1- 1.5 weeks. The reason why it's hard to get out of SPX spreads is because SPX is not electronically traded and the market makers are overwhelmed by all the huge orders (100+ contracts). So if you come in with your 2 contracts, you are obviously not a priority, unless you offer something extra on top. We are still careful about the market running up. This week worked so well for us but it is rare. There could have been some huge gains in the SPX if it wasn't offset by the tech sell-off. Holzie."

drdan said: "[QUOTE=bklambco]What is a good book on controling risk once in a position? Options Handbook?[/QUOTE] The best book for managing option trades and risk after you are in a position is The Option Trader Handbook by George Jabbour and Philip Budwick"

bklambco said: "Great ordered the book, was also looking at Mcmillan on options. What is your take on McMillan, It is a 600 page book. [QUOTE=drdan]The best book for managing option trades and risk after you are in a position is The Option Trader Handbook by George Jabbour and Philip Budwick[/QUOTE]"

Rbreb13 said: "McMillan is a great reference book. I still haven't finished it but I get a bit read everyday or so. Its a wealth of information."

holzie said: "Market is way down this morning, with 24 days till expiration and roughly 2 weeks before I will close this trade the probabilities of my 1460/1470 being threatened are slim. With this in mind I was able to buy back my butterfly "insurance" for 0.40 debit (sold for 0.60 credit) so I netted 0.20 per contract. It is nice of course that the trade was profitable but when I placed the trade a week ago I was expecting to loose 0.20-0.30, which is why I called it insurance. One more word of caution. It is very hard to get in/out of these ATM butterflies on SPX, but the method seems to work in a one direction fast moving market so I will still have this trick in my hat for the future. Holzie."

holzie said: "Yesterday, bought back the 1460/1470 spread for 1.00 debit (sold for 2.30 credit originally), so I brought home 1.30 per contract. The market dipped huge so I wanted to take advantage of it. Today, resold (same margin requirements but double the contracts of 1460/1470 for twice the credit) Feb07 SPX 1450/1455 call spread for 1.00 credit. I will hold this position for maximum of 14 more days so with 0.20 delta on the 1450 calls I should be just fine. Holz."

bklambco said: "Very Nice play here, considering that you got 2.30 initial credit to begin with. The new 1450/1455 seem a little close to the edge but at .20 delta that means there is only a 20% chance if strike being hit. Perhaps next week sometime I should be able to buy my condor back at .20 debit. I put the debit order in everyday, have the alerts set ring my phone if they get 10 points close to the strike, and of course watchin them on computer most of the day. 1470/1480 call 1390/1380 put [QUOTE=holzie]Yesterday, bought back the 1460/1470 spread for 1.00 debit (sold for 2.30 credit originally), so I brought home 1.30 per contract. The market dipped huge so I wanted to take advantage of it. Today, resold (same margin requirements but double the contracts of 1460/1470 for twice the credit) Feb07 SPX 1450/1455 call spread for 1.00 credit. I will hold this position for maximum of 14 more days so with 0.20 delta on the 1450 calls I should be just fine. Holz.[/QUOTE]"

holzie said: "I know what you mean, especially after today but there is a really strong resistance at the 1445 level. With 3 weeks till expiration, and 2 weeks before I buy it back, the time decay is really gonna eat away the runup. If the SPX closes above the 1445 level twice, I will be thinking about a possible vertical roll into March. Tomorrow, I will also be trying to buy back the 1360/1370 puts for .25 debit (initially collected 1.20 credit) and reselling twice the 1405/1410 puts for .50 credit. So I am sort of rolling it all upwards. Like I said, with 2 weeks to hold the 1450/1455 it will be really hard for the SPX to stay there. But anything can happen. I will sit tight and wait this week. Remember, theta always works in your favor, there are 2 more trading days left this week, with a runup like this, realized profits are king so I expect a pullback to the 1435 level at the end of the week -- profit taking. Holzie."

bklambco said: "Just a couple little questions here... By verticle roll, you mean you will close out your 1450/1455 credit spread and look for a new credit spread in march offsetting potential loss if it breaks pass the 1445 resistance? Never seen anyone do this? So you are taking a relatively safe position you got a 1.20 credit closing for .25, 1360/1370 I understand this but then you are doubling up a 1405/1410 much closer to the strike at .50 each. Good money maker but what is the exit strategy on this one if we do get a good down draft of profit takers? I kinda thought my 1390/1380 was too risky until I saw this one, you gota being doing something right buddy :whacky011: Been reading something very simular to your strategy on Elite Trader SPX credit spread forium , they guy is doing pretty well. I got the book The Option Trader Handbook today, started reading, first part is going pretty easy basic option info stuff. I'm interested in portion on adjusting trades and exits and stuff. One of the Authors of the book has his Journal on the Elite Trader forium, goes by the name optioncoach he started the spx credit spread thread in 2003 it is a long running journal of his trading activity, very interesting. [QUOTE=holzie]I know what you mean, especially after today but there is a really strong resistance at the 1445 level. With 3 weeks till expiration, and 2 weeks before I buy it back, the time decay is really gonna eat away the runup. If the SPX closes above the 1445 level twice, I will be thinking about a possible vertical roll into March. Tomorrow, I will also be trying to buy back the 1360/1370 puts for .25 debit (initially collected 1.20 credit) and reselling twice the 1405/1410 puts for .50 credit. So I am sort of rolling it all upwards. Like I said, with 2 weeks to hold the 1450/1455 it will be really hard for the SPX to stay there. But anything can happen. I will sit tight and wait this week. Remember, theta always works in your favor, there are 2 more trading days left this week, with a runup like this, realized profits are king so I expect a pullback to the 1435 level at the end of the week -- profit taking. Holzie.[/QUOTE]"

holzie said: "Just like I said, market pulled back big time, it couldn't hold even the 1440 line, let alone 1445. See, the earnings, while pretty decent, are not out of this world to warrant a 12 point runup and an advance the next day after that. But anyways, we don't ply earnings here. The 1450/1455 vertical roll, was a borderline defense either on 2/2 or 2/9, not before. The March credit would help paying for buying back the possible miserable situation. I would still loose a little bit of money on tis spread though. I bought back the 1360/1370 puts for 0.30 debit this morning before I went to work. The reason I am still trying to get filled on DOUBLE the 1405/1410 puts is because it is only 5 point spread, not full 10...so my margin requirements are unchanged. Again, I need to have a compensator on each side, in case one of the legs went sour. By the way I am trying to get filled at 0.65 credit per contract, not 0.50. In a normal market, I wouldn't open additional spread on the puts, because things go much worse wrong on the downside, but it has been hard to trade the traditional neutral IC strategy because the market is trending upwards. So I can be a little more liberal on the puts than I would be 8 months ago for example. Your 1370/1380 is very safe. It is over 1.5 stds out. Essentially, even though I am moving the shorts closer together than I started, I am still using the same risk..remember that there is much less time to go and theta is working for me like a maniac. I am also using the March SPX futures on where I stand with my positions. Holzie."

holzie said: "Update: After the SPX was down -11 points I stopped liking the new put trade, especially after the credits were not increasing for the added risk. I hate risk, I would really have to be compensated (at least twice my intitial requirement in credit intake) to enter the position with the SPX down 16 points. I saw this coming yesterday, and I see it go down another 4 points tomorrow. If it does dip tomorrow I will buy back my 1450/1455 calls for 1.00 debit (received 1.00 credit). That's right, I will eat the commission. Again, after seeing it go almost to 2.50 for the spread (potential loss of 1.50 per contract) I don't think I like the risk for February. [B]So in fact, the entire original February 07 iron condor earned 1.30 + 0.90 = 2.20 per contract, which is a nice 22% for the month of January (22 days held). The initial max profit was 3.50 per contract = 35% but it is still 21 days till expiration. If I didn't work full time and go to school almost full time, you bet I would be re-selling some Feb contracts to scalp some easy nickels and dimes but I can't watch it all the time. This is a marathon, not a sprint.[/B] Starting tomorrow I will try to enter into a March07 vertical put spread (taking advantage of the down market). I am thinking 1360/1350 puts for 0.90 credit. I will buy the other vertical call spread when the market gets above 1435 so I can sell the 1480/1490 or 1490/1500 for a much better premium than at this level. That will give me the iron condor again. If the market zig zags, I can take early profits on opposite sides..etc. Hope this helps. Holzie."

bklambco said: "My spx chart. Lines show potential support and resistance areas, pretty much hit right on them. Center line is an ema 24. Lines can be used to show where you are in over sold/bought areas too. Chart is smal because forum limitations."

bklambco said: "closed out this portion of the condor wing. -1 SPX FEB07 1470 call -2.65 +1 SPX FEB07 1480 call +1.35 credit (1.30) bought it back for .25 so profit on this side wing was 1.30 - .25 = 1.05 Hopefully next week Theta will eat into the 1390/1380 put. Feel free to express your opinions ideas. [QUOTE=bklambco]To keep the math simple using 1 contract -1 SPX FEB07 1470 call -2.65 +1 SPX FEB07 1480 call +1.35 credit (1.30) -1 SPX FEB07 1390 put -5.00 +1 SPX FEB07 1380 put -4.00 credit(1.00) credit (2.30) :dazed052: Premium Prices were swinging up and down bit today was able to catch a good up and down. I could have gotten a 1380,1370 for about .80 I think that would be a little safer. :lamer:[/QUOTE]"

bklambco said: "This is their default platform charts they offer."

holzie said: "[QUOTE=bklambco]closed out this portion of the condor wing. -1 SPX FEB07 1470 call -2.65 +1 SPX FEB07 1480 call +1.35 credit (1.30) bought it back for .25 so profit on this side wing was 1.30 - .25 = 1.05 Hopefully next week Theta will eat into the 1390/1380 put. Feel free to express your opinions ideas.[/QUOTE] This is a great example of superb risk management. Why hold till expiration like a dumbass and not take an advantage of a sudden market move, right? Bottom line you turned paper money into real money, which is the only thing that counts , in options especially. Theta will help you on the puts. I am pretty sure you will be able to close this one by Feb 9. Congrats man, this is how you play iron condors with active management. When did you enter this trade? As for me, I closed the 1450/1455 calls for 1.00 debit (sold for 1.00 credit) so I am done with February and I am 100% cash waiting what the market will do after the 30th when FOMC meets. Then I will start with March contracts, one side at a time, depending which direction the market will go. I gotta thank Mike from ThinkorSwim today for getting me the fill at 1.00 debit. I couldn't get filled at 1.10 and I called the trade desk to see what's up. He said he could get me out for a "buck" and sure enough, 3 minutes later, I was filled......not sure what he did (called the floor, matched it within the company....who cares) but thanks Mike :) So I ended my January with 22% return on margin (28.2% return on risk). I am pleased I was out that quick, the market moving up and down ALONG with my friend Theta made it possible. Some months are more cruel than this and one can get a tough mental workout. I am not counting the additional 0.40 (additional 4%) that I scalped for he butterfly because that was an "insurance" that happened to work out with a gain instead of a tiny loss, which is what I expected. Congrats again to you for closing the call spread so well :) Holzie."

drdan said: "[QUOTE=holzie]I gotta thank Mike from ThinkorSwim today for getting me the fill at 1.00 debit. I couldn't get filled at 1.10 and I called the trade desk to see what's up. He said he could get me out for a "buck" and sure enough, 3 minutes later, I was filled......not sure what he did (called the floor, matched it within the company....who cares) but thanks Mike :) Holzie.[/QUOTE] Holz, I have found when I am in a real tough spot and need to close a trade calling the broker does produce better results. Closing a spread trade TWO DAYS before expiration because it broke resistance and my sold call was right there. I could not get out, I was actually going to start losing money. I called OX and the guy got me out at break even. I asked how he could do that when I couldn't get out all morning? His response was that he was good! But he did advise me if something like that happened again to call because they can help get me out, better than using the computer. One of my trading friends has been trading long before electronic and he still calls his broker more than using the computer. (he's older than Z! :dazed052: ) He likes the personal attention."

holzie said: "Very true, Dan, very true. I like calling the broker, except when I used to be with Scottrade long time ago, they always know what to do :) Holzie."

bklambco said: "Theta will help you on the puts. I am pretty sure you will be able to close this one by Feb 9. Congrats man, this is how you play iron condors with active management. When did you enter this trade? Jan 16 2007 the condor was entered closed the call wing Jan 26 2007. After I closed it I did see it pop down to .20 but then back up it was moving quite a bit. I saw the diference between the bid and ask was .25 I knew the order would be taken in flash. Interactive brokers is an ECN. An ECN means that your orders are placed directly out in th open market broker operates strickly on commision and does not get the price on the open market then show your electronic platform a slightly different price or muck around with it. Oh well thats the concept of an ECN dont know if I trust anything anyway. Dont know if I can use a floor broker but it does sound handy. Thanks for your compliments, of course I can not always be like this must always be on guard nothing is for sure once you get it in your head that you are to good you will begin to lose. I guess always thinking how you could do better makes you better. [QUOTE=holzie]This is a great example of superb risk management. Why hold till expiration like a dumbass and not take an advantage of a sudden market move, right? Bottom line you turned paper money into real money, which is the only thing that counts , in options especially. Theta will help you on the puts. I am pretty sure you will be able to close this one by Feb 9. Congrats man, this is how you play iron condors with active management. When did you enter this trade? As for me, I closed the 1450/1455 calls for 1.00 debit (sold for 1.00 credit) so I am done with February and I am 100% cash waiting what the market will do after the 30th when FOMC meets. Then I will start with March contracts, one side at a time, depending which direction the market will go. I gotta thank Mike from ThinkorSwim today for getting me the fill at 1.00 debit. I couldn't get filled at 1.10 and I called the trade desk to see what's up. He said he could get me out for a "buck" and sure enough, 3 minutes later, I was filled......not sure what he did (called the floor, matched it within the company....who cares) but thanks Mike :) So I ended my January with 22% return on margin (28.2% return on risk). I am pleased I was out that quick, the market moving up and down ALONG with my friend Theta made it possible. Some months are more cruel than this and one can get a tough mental workout. I am not counting the additional 0.40 (additional 4%) that I scalped for he butterfly because that was an "insurance" that happened to work out with a gain instead of a tiny loss, which is what I expected. Congrats again to you for closing the call spread so well :) Holzie.[/QUOTE]"

bklambco said: "-1 SPX FEB07 1390 put -5.00 +1 SPX FEB07 1380 put -4.00 credit(1.00) Closed this out for a small loss closed it at 1.10 so 1.10 - 1.00 .10 cents loss. Reasons...Not want to be in the Cross hairs of the FOMC meeting tommorow, If they mention rasing rates or do raise rates they could easily knock me out. Also shutting down platform for a move to TOS. I will be simulator trading till then.:th_coolio:"

holzie said: "[QUOTE=bklambco]-1 SPX FEB07 1390 put -5.00 +1 SPX FEB07 1380 put -4.00 credit(1.00) Closed this out for a small loss closed it at 1.10 so 1.10 - 1.00 .10 cents loss. Reasons...Not want to be in the Cross hairs of the FOMC meeting tommorow, If they mention rasing rates or do raise rates they could easily knock me out. Also shutting down platform for a move to TOS. I will be simulator trading till then.:th_coolio:[/QUOTE] I would say that it was s smart decision, considering you were able to get out at 0.10 loss. I know how I felt when I wanted out of those 1450/1455's. It's better to be safe than sorry. The market seems to be taking the other direction for a while. Holz."