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Home >> Stock Forums >> Investing In South Africa?

Investing In South Africa?

Heather said: "Just when you thought that all of those Emails telling you about investments in Nigeria were spam, investment consultants are advising that it could be profitable after all. [QUOTE]Africa with its rock-bottom real asset values may be trying to teach the world how China, India, Russia, and the Islamic world actually prefer to hold assets -- in real form rather than derivatives or financial securities. When the yen carry trade ends, the world could look very different from a financial perspective and the current 'crisis' on subprime mortgages in the U.S. may look like the proverbial gnat against the 900 pound gorilla," the report says. "Fifty or one hundred years ago due to our political clout and financial systems, we didn't have to care or listen (and we didn't). Now, we should be taking lessons or, at the least, observing the action," the report says. [/QUOTE] The upsides? Africa is considered to be one of the last undervalued marketplace. What are your thoughts? Worth a gamble? [URL="http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/socially-responsible-investment-opportunities-emerge-africa/story.aspx?guid=%7B54D09EA7-3BEC-4D5D-89C7-9EA2B936B024%7D"]Marketwatch[/URL]"

AlfredSokol said: "If I had the money I would definitely buy real commodities resources there."

newinvestor123 said: "Sasol is one African company that's definitely worth a look. I almost bought some at around $30 a couple months ago, but passed, which was a mistake - It's up to $38 now. They have been using [URL="http://energy.seekingalpha.com/article/23025"]coal to liquid technology[/URL] for a long time now, and as long as oil prices stay high, they will probably continue to make healthy profits. W/C/S..."

crankitdb711 said: "I've said it elsewhere but I'll say it again. Black (sorry, can't say native... white boer's, etc., settled the country 400+ years ago) South Africa represents the vast majority of the country. This group is largely impoverished, hundreds of thousands of them die of AIDS every year, and millions have it. The country is a voting democracy (apartheid's gone...) and blacks are more comfortable and increasingly voting. That's great, of course, except that this group is (naturally) demanding increased social reform and rights for the poverty-stricken blacks in their housing camps. As the working environment worsens and taxes increase for industry, more companies are moving out of the company. If you want to send your dollar to South Africa, that's a great charity, especially in support of AIDS education programs (which are rare there) or the animal reserves... but as an investment, that's crazy. Heather's Marketwatch article says to invest their on the premise of hope but it doesn't identify a bottom or a turn for the better. The AIDS thing is so bad there and elsewhere in sub-saharan Africa that that alone is reason to not invest there or anywhere in the region. Let me elaborate: According to a doctor we talked with in Swaziland (not in South Africa, of course, but a country literally surrounded by South Africa), the most common cure for AIDS in the eyes of Swazi's is for a male with the disease to have sex with a virgin girl - that it is seen as an act of "cleansing one's self." Second, those governments don't give a ****. I was arrested in South Africa upon entry to the country because I refused to be vaccinated for Yellow Fever (because I didn't want to get stuck with an HIV needle for some bullshit disease vaccine) and I walked right through customs. The head of police explained that 144 people in Sudan the year before contracted and died from Yellow Fever - a disease thought to have been spread from South America (I had just arrived from Sao Paulo, Brazil)... he didn't like the fact that I reminded him that over a third of a million of his OWN country's people died of AIDS that same year!!!!!!! The countries are so clouded by the own shit in their eyes that they care about a disease that probably isn't even communicable that affected 144 people in some far away country when over 300,000 died of a different disease that they don't say one word about to anyone. They can make every single person entering the country from South America spend $80 for dumb****ingassyellowfevervaccine when they can't hand out 10 cent condoms to the hundreds getting infected by HIV every day. Third, we heard many stories about people like Gugu Dlamini of South Africa who was beaten to death by her villagers by announcing she had AIDS. Getting treatment makes you an outcast. You think anyone gets treatment? Even tested? Fourth, 1/3 of Africans polled thought a person with AIDS can be identified as "looking unhealthy". Fifth, being promiscuous is still okay despite the risks. The king of Swaziland has either 12 or 13 queens, I can't remember. Realistic estimates site that 1 in 3 people in Swaziland have HIV. Instead of the king coming out and saying, "yes, I have wives, and they've all been tested" he has, according to people we talked to, never mentioned, referred to, discussed or even acknowledged the disease in public. AIDS, and its subsquent discussions, despite its high relevance, is taboo in Africa Conservative estimates say 1 in 10 of South Africa have AIDS, more accurate accounts say 3 out of 10 do, with 1 out of 2 black South Africans with the disease. There will be 40 million AIDS orphans in Africa by 2010. Most new infected persons are under age 29. Family structure is toppling, national GDP's are plummeting due to lost workforces, and governments in Africa spend $165 million per year to combat AIDS - that's a small percent of the marketing costs of most companies you and I invest in. I feel bad for the country, but it's screwed. Companies are leaving there en masse. Some go there, yes, but many more are leaving. The government will all but collapse, democracy is making things worse (a sign that things really are bad), and millions are sick and dying with no solution in sight. Sorry to be the hater, again sending dollars there is great for the people, but it's not a good idea for your wallet :dazed002:"

newinvestor123 said: "[QUOTE=crankitdb711]Sorry to be the hater, again sending dollars there is great for the people, but it's not a good idea for your wallet :dazed002:[/QUOTE] Excellent write-up! One comment, and a question: I don't even think sending money there is a good idea... Give a man a fish, he'll want another fish tomorrow, and soon he'll come to expect his daily free fish. Teach a man to fish, and... well... Even if he doesn't catch his own fish, at least you're off the moral hook for his welfare. :lol: And I'm just curious - What were you doing in Africa?"

crankitdb711 said: "[QUOTE=newinvestor123]Excellent write-up! One comment, and a question: I don't even think sending money there is a good idea... Give a man a fish, he'll want another fish tomorrow, and soon he'll come to expect his daily free fish. Teach a man to fish, and... well... Even if he doesn't catch his own fish, at least you're off the moral hook for his welfare. :lol: And I'm just curious - What were you doing in Africa?[/QUOTE] Thank you, and it was okay - upon reread I did find a couple of ridiculous typos like "company leaving the company." Obviously the latter should have been "country". I agree and disagree about the sending of money. I see your point but at the same time, the African governments do NOTHING to educate their people about the spread and prevention of AIDS. It is not a conspiracy theory, it is a reality, that in Africa those with AIDS are largely black, poor, and uneducated. In the US, Europe, etc, those with AIDS are normal mostly, possibly educated, possibly wealthy. Poor, uneducated, sick, black africans can be isolated and left to die and die off in Africa (you don't do that in the western world because these people, again, can be perfectly well educated, wealthy, and functioning). African governments seek to avoid paying for this costly - and in their eyes, worthless - population. This stands for governments as westernized as South Africa. Furthermore, as much as people chastize Americans, the British, and Chrisitian Churches to be colonialist, imperialist, whatevers... the only billboards, signs, or education of any form, in any of the countries I've been in, was paid for and supported by any one of those 3 mentioned groups (which was often indicated on small print in the corner of the sign). Never did I see anything from the ever-growing there Islam church, China, France, the places and groups in the world that point their finger at certain other groups as being selfish. But that's a seperate discussion altogether. Well, anyway, spending a dollar on an organization that is trying to educate the 40-year-old infected male that having sex with numerous 12-year-old girls will not help "cleanse" him of AIDS does help. While there is little of that education and hope, and while many people, including their own, often black-led cruel governments have written them off as worthless costly and better-off dead casualties in their own societies, we should not be the same and say there is no hope for the sick and used. There are some groups that do spend money in the right places. Again... 40 million orphans of AIDS by 2010. :("

AlfredSokol said: "So we'll mark your vote as a "No" then? LOL"

crankitdb711 said: "[QUOTE=AlfredSokol]So we'll mark your vote as a "No" then? LOL[/QUOTE] :th_SmlyROFL:"

Darren said: "Interesting rant. So what would you call the number one problem in South Africa? Endemic corruption?"

crankitdb711 said: "[QUOTE=Darren]Interesting rant. So what would you call the number one problem in South Africa? Endemic corruption?[/QUOTE] somewhere between indifference toward human life and avarice"

Pb3190 said: "The AIDS/HIV problem over there is horrible, I hope it never gets that bad in the US. Our own problems are rising, but are still not even in the same ballpark as those in Africa. As far as risk taking overseas investing, I think Africa would be near the top of my list, just under investing in the Iraqi Dinar."