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any good low share price stocks?


dsm091 said: "I am looking for some stocks that the share price is under 10 that are decent companies with long term growth. Any suggestions? Thanks again guys for the previous help."

Avernus said: "I have had EVERGREEN SOLAR INC (ESLR) on my watchlist for some time and plan on making a move on my next purge.... I had them coupled with DSTI whi just recently went from around 6.00 to around 14.00 in the past 2 months...I had the unfortunate pleasure of watching this happen before I predicted and I was too afraid to hop in, in fear that it would drop back to normal after I purchased some shares... this didn't happen :mad: do your own research of course :D and see if they fit what you're looking to invest in.."

StockFreak said: "If you like energy research CPST, if you like TV's research TUNE, if you like online banking ORCC, and how about cell phones SWKS. Look thru them thoroughly and listen to the conference calls and make your own judgments."

trickynick said: "Share price...the single most useless piece of information about a company, yet the most widely tracked."

sp0om said: "^ True that."

AlfredSokol said: "Check out HRAY as mentioned in another thread. It is China's most profitable company and is selling under $10."

InvestorMan said: "[QUOTE=trickynick]Share price...the single most useless piece of information about a company, yet the most widely tracked.[/QUOTE] [SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Sorry, Nick... is there another piece of information that's better than share price?[/FONT][/SIZE] :confused:"

sp0om said: "Market Cap."

dsm091 said: "well maybe I worded it wrong. But you guys were right on track, I want something that I can get a lot of shares in. Something longer term, I havent been spending a dime since I got to Iraq, and I have limited capabilities from here. But if you want to say that I should be looking at something else other than stock price than dont help. How hard is it not to post? Thanks for the ones that did help."

AlfredSokol said: "How are things in Iraq?"

dsm091 said: "same ol same ol, everyday same bombs going off in the same spots. The constitution is supposed to be done on the 15th. So you know the terrorists will try to get their words in. Anyone from california? if you are you will know what unit i am with. We are almost done though five months left. We are in the hottest zone in iraq right now, so we will see. A lot of corruption over here, but you know how that goes. If you have any questions about Iraq ask away, I am not shy. Now back to stocks :)"

StockFreak said: "DSM091, bro, is there an address we can send stuff to you and your crew out there? Been trying to find a good way to help yall out there but i dont think the bumper magnet is cutting it! Ill find some cool shiat to send and what ever you guys are runnin low on (i think i saw a soldier say you guys need t-shirts, if so ive got like 100 plain whites i can send, among other things.)"

trickynick said: "[QUOTE=InvestorMan][SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Sorry, Nick... is there another piece of information that's better than share price?[/FONT][/SIZE] :confused:[/QUOTE] There are plenty. To name a few...net earnings applicable to common shares, market cap, P/E, return on assests, return on equity, long term debt, cash-minus-long-term-debt per share. I can name more if you want but I'd rather ask you is there any piece of information that tells you LESS about a company than share price??? :confused: Seriously though, money is money. Percentage is percentage. If a stock is $50 a share and it goes to fifty cents you've lost 99%. If it is $3 a share and it goes to fifty cents does it really make you feel any better that you've only lost 86%? Don't worry about the number of shares, just look at the money."

AlfredSokol said: "I agree TN. If you invest $1,000 and get a 50% return, that's $500 whether you owned 10 $100 stocks or 1,000 $1 stocks. Most new investors get into the idea of low priced stocks and its' a totally useless metric. Percentage of total investment gained is all I care about. The bigger that number the better."

dsm091 said: "[QUOTE=StockFreak]DSM091, bro, is there an address we can send stuff to you and your crew out there? Been trying to find a good way to help yall out there but i dont think the bumper magnet is cutting it! Ill find some cool shiat to send and what ever you guys are runnin low on (i think i saw a soldier say you guys need t-shirts, if so ive got like 100 plain whites i can send, among other things.)[/QUOTE] Thanks yeah, stuff that goes a long way is anything that we would use, white socks, brown t shirts, stuff like that. People send a lot of candy, I think they are trying to get thier soldiers fat. :) One thing I have always liked was pictures of stuff that reminds me of the united states and how great it is. Send me pics of VEGAS!! :)"

InvestorMan said: "[QUOTE=trickynick]There are plenty. To name a few...net earnings applicable to common shares, market cap, P/E, return on assests, return on equity, long term debt, cash-minus-long-term-debt per share. I can name more if you want but I'd rather ask you is there any piece of information that tells you LESS about a company than share price??? :confused: Seriously though, money is money. Percentage is percentage. If a stock is $50 a share and it goes to fifty cents you've lost 99%. If it is $3 a share and it goes to fifty cents does it really make you feel any better that you've only lost 86%? Don't worry about the number of shares, just look at the money.[/QUOTE] No, Nick, the point is you pooped on a guy because he wants to buy stock at less than $10.00 a share, as if you're so much smarter than all the rest of us poor saps. And what's wrong with wanting to buy stocks at less than $10.00 a share? Are you trying to say that it would be a stupid move based on "useless information"? Are there no good companies out there selling for less than $10.00 a share? In a free enterprise system, price is set by supply and demand, and demand is influenced by desire. There are many people who "desire" cheap stocks, and desire is never wrong... it's only desire. Because if enough people desire the same thing, demand will increase and the price will go up. All those people will be rewarded. Of course, book value of a company is important, but, believe it or not, it is not as important as desire! Now, when you ask "is there any piece of information that tells you LESS about a company than share price", it's obvious that you're implying I'm a fool for even questioning you, and maybe you're right... after all, I'm just a lowly investment advisor. I look at what the big boys do and I take my cues from them. So, in light of that, let me ask you, if share price is not important, [B]then why do companies split their shares?[/B] These are not lowly investors like you and me. They are major public corporations dealing in billions of dollars. Why don't you tell [I]them[/I] that share price is not important. The fact is they know what you don't know or haven't realized, yet... that by splitting their stock and lowering the price, they make the stock more [I]desirable[/I] to the public, which will create more demand, which will increase the price, which will increase the market cap or overall value of the company. And while we're on the subject of market cap, I think it's my duty to mention that two of the factors you claim to be more important than price are actually [I]dependant [/I] on price. That is market capitalization, which is the number of shares outstanding times the [I]price[/I]. The other is P/E, which is the [B]PRICE [/B] to Earnings Ratio! Yes, Nick, you are a regular encyclopedia of investment terms, but all of the factors you mentioned are just as useless as price if you don't know how to use them, and I think you don't because you don't even realize that the price/earnings ratio is dependant on stock price. But why argue about it? I think I smell a challenge. How about a contest between you and me, right here on this forum? You recommend any stocks you want and I'll recommend only cheap stocks. We'll both start with an imaginary portfolio of, say $10,000.00 and we can both buy, sell or hold any size and any position we want with an imaginary commission of $25.00 per trade. Let's do that for a month and see who ends up with the higher [B][I]percentage [/I] [/B] gain."

trickynick said: "[QUOTE=InvestorMan]And what's wrong with wanting to buy stocks at less than $10.00 a share? Are you trying to say that it would be a stupid move based on "useless information"? Are there no good companies out there selling for less than $10.00 a share?[/quote] No. There are good companies out there selling at many share prices. Including at under $10.00 a share. But the share price, [i]standing by itself[/i] says nothing about whether or not it is wise to buy the company at its current level. [QUOTE=InvestorMan]In a free enterprise system, price is set by supply and demand, and demand is influenced by desire. There are many people who "desire" cheap stocks, and desire is never wrong... it's only desire. Because if enough people desire the same thing, demand will increase and the price will go up. All those people will be rewarded. Of course, book value of a company is important, but, believe it or not, it is not as important as desire![/quote] Of course desire to own a stock will ultimately determine its value. As investors, we try to decide if the future desire to own a company is likely to increase. This begs the question: what information is useful in making such a decision? It is my belief that share price influences desire to own and much less than other information available to us and is much less useful than that other information as an indicator of future value. [QUOTE=InvestorMan]Now, when you ask "is there any piece of information that tells you LESS about a company than share price", it's obvious that you're implying I'm a fool for even questioning you[/quote] No, it actually had more to do with the way you phrased your question than it did with any desire to imply you were a fool. I made a statement that I believed share price to be the most useless piece of information about a company. If I really believe this then OF COURSE my answer to the question you posted ("Is there a peice of information that is better than share price?") would be yes. Therefore, if you are genuinely curious about why I believe share price to be useless the better way to prompt me to explain why I believe this would have been to simply ask that. On the other hand, I found it hard to believe that you believe share price to be the single most VALUABLE piece of information about a company, so it wasn't clear to me where you were going by the way you responded. That is why I said that. I am sorry if you found my tone snooty or condescending but it was my natural response. [QUOTE=InvestorMan] So, in light of that, let me ask you, if share price is not important, [B]then why do companies split their shares?[/B] These are not lowly investors like you and me. They are major public corporations dealing in billions of dollars. Why don't you tell [I]them[/I] that share price is not important. The fact is they know what you don't know or haven't realized, yet... that by splitting their stock and lowering the price, they make the stock more [I]desirable[/I] to the public, which will create more demand, which will increase the price, which will increase the market cap or overall value of the company[/quote] Yes, you are right that the lower stock price that results from a split makes the stock more attractive. However, it doesn't change the company's fundamentals which are what will determine the company's value [i]in the long run[/i]. [QUOTE=InvestorMan]And while we're on the subject of market cap, I think it's my duty to mention that two of the factors you claim to be more important than price are actually [I]dependant [/I] on price. That is market capitalization, which is the number of shares outstanding times the [I]price[/I]. The other is P/E, which is the [B]PRICE [/B] to Earnings Ratio![/quote] The difference is that these are number that actually tell you something about the company. My characterization of share price as being a useless piece of information was in regard to the share price standing by itself, I am sorry I assumed that would be implied. I don't see how P/E has that much to do with share price. Consider the following. A company valued at $100 billion has earned $5 billion in the last year and has 2 billion shares outstanding. That would mean the share price is $50 and the P/E ratio is 20. The stock splits 2 for 1, now there are 4 billion shares outstanding and the share price is $25. The P/E ratio is unchanged even though the share price has been reduced by half. Okay, you are right that the P/E ratio is not completely devoid of any connection to the share price whatsoever, I'll give you that. However, the fact that the quantity of shares is not fixed makes the connection that does exist not very meaningful. If for some reason some regulatory authority required all companys to have a fixed number of shares outstanding which was allowed to increase only when the said regulatory authority decreed that it should, then I would say the share price would be a very meaningful piece of information under those conditions but that is not the case. [QUOTE=InvestorMan]But why argue about it? I think I smell a challenge. How about a contest between you and me, right here on this forum? You recommend any stocks you want and I'll recommend only cheap stocks.[/quote] If your objective in doing this is to demonstrate to me that cheap stocks can be good investments, that is unnecessary. I don't believe that cheap stocks are inherently bad investments, any more than I believe they are good investments BECAUSE they are cheap. If you are interested in seeing how my investing savvy matches up against you then first of all what happens in one month means jack shit to my style of investing, it doesn't prove anything. If does mean something to your style of investing (which isn't bad or good, just different) then the contest would amount to an apples and oranges comparison and therefore what's the point? Second, and more to the point, I don't care even if you are better than me. Good for you, good for your clients. Anyway, in my interpretation the central issue of this discussion is whether or not a stock is a good investment based on a low share price. The appearance of a company as being cheap based on its share price is purely psychological. If I found a company to be overvalued even at a low share price, I would personally not buy it on the reasoning that it looks cheap to other investors. I would see that as a decision that was based on a prediction of how the investing public would react to something that was illusory. I am more comfortable predicting how they are going to respond to reality rather than illusion. Anyway, I am sorry if you thought I was being a dick in the way I responded to you and I appologize also to the original poster if he was offended. But nonetheless, I found the resulting exchange of ideas worthwhile."

InvestorMan said: "[SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Thank you for your detailed response, Nick. You brought up some good points. I don't think you offended dsm091 as much as you made him feel like he was asking a stupid question. He told us all right off the bat that he's new to the market, and it's really not a stupid question. The guy wants to buy a stock under $10.00. Why didn't you just give him one? Use your fundamentals and find a good stock under $10.00 that you can recommend. After that, you can also recommend one over $10.00 and gently point out that price might not be the most important thing to consider. As for me, if you implied that I'm a dick, you'd be right. I AM a dick, but I'm very good at what I do and I like to encourage people to get phenonemal returns on their investments with less risk. On that note, I'll recommend a stock for you, dsm091. Birch Mountain Resources. The stock symbol is BMD and it's trading on the American Stock Exchange (AMEX). Birch Mountain provides limestone to oil companies in northeastern Alberta. The limestone is used by the oil sands industry for roads, concrete and flue-gas scrubbing to remove impurities in air emissions, which is essential to the continued development and operation of this industry. The company has just received all approvals from Alberta Environment, and gotten their Mineral Surface Lease from Alberta Public Lands and the Development Permit from the Regional Municipality of Wood Buffalo for the Muskeg Valley Quarry to produce limestone. Production will start this week and the stock is skyrocketing. Last price is $3.32.[/FONT][/SIZE]"

alhamid said: "its common psychology to want to get as many shares as possible...its human nature"

SHIFTY101EASY said: "InvestorMan, i just opened my account with Firstrade, ive got limited funds in there right now but 3 something a share i could probably get a good chunk of shares...u really think this stock is gonna explode?"

AlfredSokol said: "Here's a link to the article on the [url=http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050804/to081.html?.v=11]approvals[/url] I can't deduce when they expect revenue."

dsm091 said: "big day in history in iraq on monday, lets hope everything goes as planned. thanks for the tip, i am checking them out right now. jayson"

InvestorMan said: "[QUOTE=dsm091]big day in history in iraq on monday, lets hope everything goes as planned. thanks for the tip, i am checking them out right now. jayson[/QUOTE] [SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Good luck in Iraq next week, Jayson. We're all rooting for you guys.[/FONT][/SIZE]"

HappyHarry said: "Keep your head down, Jayson."

InvestorMan said: "[QUOTE=SHIFTY101EASY]InvestorMan, i just opened my account with Firstrade, ive got limited funds in there right now but 3 something a share i could probably get a good chunk of shares...u really think this stock is gonna explode?[/QUOTE] [SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]I recommended Birch Mountain Resources (AMEX:BMD) a couple days ago at $3.32. It just closed today at $3.55. This stock is already exploding, but it's not too late to get in now.[/FONT][/SIZE]"

InvestorMan said: "[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=3]I was pretty busy last week, Jayson, so I didn't have a lot of time to follow the news. All I saw about Iraq was that a couple ships were attacked by rockets. I hope you're doing alright, over there, and if we don't hear from you again, I hope it's just because you got bored with this website and nothing worse. If you are still around, I know you probably can't tell us too much about what's going on over and above what we might see on the news, but could you at least please tell me if you bought Birch Mountain Resources or not![/SIZE][/FONT] :)"

dsm091 said: "I did buy it, and it is cruising. I appreciate the tip. Things are going well over here. The constitution keeps getting pushed back. I dont understand these people. Weather is actually getting better, I cant believe it actually, it is still hot but the nights are better. I will keep you guys posted. thanks jayson"

InvestorMan said: "[SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Yeah, I finally caught something in the paper, today. Apparently, the Iraqi parliament can't come to agreement on the constitution. The minority Sunni are not happy with the draft and are blocking it, if I read it right. The Sunni used to be the power over there and I guess they're having a hard time playing a backseat to the Kurds now. Congrats on the purchase of Birch Mountain, Jayson. How much did you get it for? It's a fast moving stock right now, and I want to build an exit strategy for you as soon as possible.[/FONT][/SIZE]"

dsm091 said: "[QUOTE=InvestorMan][SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Yeah, I finally caught something in the paper, today. Apparently, the Iraqi parliament can't come to agreement on the constitution. The minority Sunni are not happy with the draft and are blocking it, if I read it right. The Sunni used to be the power over there and I guess they're having a hard time playing a backseat to the Kurds now. Congrats on the purchase of Birch Mountain, Jayson. How much did you get it for? It's a fast moving stock right now, and I want to build an exit strategy for you as soon as possible.[/FONT][/SIZE][/QUOTE] Yeah you are right on about the constitution. It is very hard for the Sunnis to even agree with each other let alone with the Kurds. As for the stock I got in around 3.56. Thanks again guys Jayson"

InvestorMan said: "[SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Thanks for the info, Jayson, both about the Iraqi constitution and about the stock. I'll keep my eyes open on both fronts. The stock dropped a bit today. It should just be a correction (profit taking), but I'll keep my eye out on it and let you know what to do. For now, just hold it. InvestorMan[/FONT][/SIZE]"

dsm091 said: "Sounds good to me."

Spoudazo said: "[QUOTE=InvestorMan][SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Sorry, Nick... is there another piece of information that's better than share price?[/FONT][/SIZE] :confused:[/QUOTE] He is quoting Peter Lynch. Something better would be the business's earnings, p/e ratio, and all the other stuff. :)"

InvestorMan said: "[SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Time to sell Birch Mountain Resources, Jayson. It's had a good run, but it can't seem to stay up about $4.00 and it looks like it's running out of steam. Current price is $3.87. Considering you bought at $3.56, that's a pretty good run.[/FONT][/SIZE]"

SHIFTY101EASY said: "ok since i didnt get on BMD and its pretty much peaked.....whats the next one out there you see in a similar price range? thanks for any help"

InvestorMan said: "[SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]I'll check my notes this evening and give you my recommendation.[/FONT][/SIZE]"

SHIFTY101EASY said: "thank you. im looking at some things right now but nothing looks too promising....i look forward to your tips."

InvestorMan said: "[SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Shifty, buy Oracle Energy Corporation (CDNX:OCL). This stock is listed on the TSX Venture Exchange. Last Price is $0.97 CAD.[/FONT][/SIZE]"

SHIFTY101EASY said: "it sounds pretty good. im looking at stuff about it right now...but i dont think i can buy it through firstrade....?? it dosent come up when i search for it. the ticker symbol is "invalid". any tips?"

SHIFTY101EASY said: "possibly because its trading in canada (toronto)??? got any ideas for stocks i can buy though firstrade?"

SHIFTY101EASY said: "got any today? thanks"

InvestorMan said: "[SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]My idea is that you should change brokers, Shifty. I specialize in stocks listed on the TSX Venture Exchange. Unlike the OTC and pink sheets, the TSX has cut out the pumpers and dumpers, giving you honest-to-goodness trading opportunities in stocks with real potential to double quickly. Look at the stock I recommended last Thursday night, [URL=http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=OCL.V&d=t]Oracle Energy Corporation (CDNX:OCL)[/URL]. On Thursday it was $0.97. On Friday, it closed at $1.08. Oracle is a junior oil and gas company currently developing oil and gas fields in Romania and is also engaged in a suite of prospects in Yemen off the Red Sea coast on or near the Saudi Arabian border. [URL=http://www.oracleenergy.com/s/Default.asp]The company has entered into an option agreement to more than double to 15% its stake in a major oil and gas field in Yemen.[/URL] This is a "company maker" deal for Oracle. If your broker isn't going to give you an opportunity to make a handsome profit off this deal, then you need another broker. Scottrade and Ameritrade both let you trade stocks listed in Canada. I guess that's just one of the reasons these two brokerage firms are consistently the top-rated brokers in America.[/FONT][/SIZE]"

SHIFTY101EASY said: "yeah...i was going to go with scottrade but i went for first trade because its slightly cheaper and has a simpler interface and just felt more confortable with it....i JUST got signed up with scottrade....oh well...i guess i will look into scottrade...do you need a minimum balance?"

SHIFTY101EASY said: "[QUOTE=SHIFTY101EASY]yeah...i was going to go with scottrade but i went for first trade because its slightly cheaper and has a simpler interface and just felt more confortable with it....i JUST got signed up with scottrade....oh well...i guess i will look into scottrade...do you need a minimum balance?[/QUOTE] i mean signed up with firstrade....why cant i edit my post's? i dont exactly have 500 bucks i want to let go right now to open a minimum account....there must be something on the nasdaq nyse or amex???"

InvestorMan said: "[SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]You want to me to recommend something from a major U.S. Exchange? I can do that. How much do you have to invest? I hope more than $500.00.[/FONT][/SIZE]"

SHIFTY101EASY said: "umm...no not exactly lol :o i have more along the lines of a few hundred bucks at the moment.... i could devote more as time goes on...but for right now i want to try with the amount i have in my account...which is a little more than like...300 i think...if you feel im wasting my time then let me know i guess. otherwise, let the suggestions run free. even a certain area of the market (oil, technology, automtoive...etc etc etc....) to look into...anything would be a good bump in the right direction. thanks"

InvestorMan said: "[SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Okay, Shifty, try [URL=http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=MII&d=t]MicroIslet (AMEX:MII)[/URL]. MicroIslet is a biotechnology company engaged in the research and development of transplant technologies for people with insulin-dependent diabetes. [URL=http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050908/lath032.html?.v=28]The company has presented positive data from its preclinical studies at the Scripps Research Institute.[/URL]. The stock is selling for $2.19. Get in on this one![/FONT][/SIZE]"

SHIFTY101EASY said: "alright, im going to try this one out. hope it works out. thanks for the tip!"

StockFreak said: "Take a look at EGY for a good oil play"

InvestorMan said: "[QUOTE=SHIFTY101EASY]alright, im going to try this one out. hope it works out. thanks for the tip![/QUOTE] [SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Alright, Shifty. Good luck with it. So far it looks good. Let me know what price you get in at.[/FONT][/SIZE]"

thezster said: "Fascinating, absolutely fascinating. I can't imagine dumping my hard earned cash into a stock with little more than a faceless recommendation from this board. Granted a few hundred bucks isn't much... but to some folks, it's like betting the farm........ Not to say it's not a good recommendation....... but hey....... c'mon............"

SHIFTY101EASY said: "well i didnt dump my small chunk of change completely into that either....he was right about the last one i believe, but its on a canadian exchange. i talked to my uncle, he said it didnt look too bad either. but really, who knows what can happen? BTW InvestorMan - I bought at $2.24, its now at $2.17...so a 7 cent loss. Im not fretting though, gonna wait and see if it will rise again soon."

InvestorMan said: "[QUOTE=thezster]Fascinating, absolutely fascinating. I can't imagine dumping my hard earned cash into a stock with little more than a faceless recommendation from this board. Granted a few hundred bucks isn't much... but to some folks, it's like betting the farm........ Not to say it's not a good recommendation....... but hey....... c'mon............[/QUOTE] [SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Excuse me, who are you? I recommend stocks that double in a month, and I get paid good money for it. Why the hell am I in this forum putting up with weasle-ass comments from fools like you, I don't even know, except that I saw a post here from a guy fighting in Iraq, and I wanted to do him a favor, seeing as he's putting his ass on the line so that weasles like you can have the freedom to make snide comments as if you actually know something the rest of us don't. To you, I may be just a "faceless recommendation", but Shifty doesn't need to see my face to know that I deliver the goods. He saw me recommend Birch Mountain Resources for a nice profit, and he saw me recommend Oracle Energy Corporation last week at $0.97 and then skyrocket to $1.31 less than a week later. Of course, you won't say MicroIslet is not a good recommendation because you don't have the guts to commit either way, so, since you don't seem to have anything positive to say in this forum, try not saying anything at all.[/FONT][/SIZE]"

InvestorMan said: "[QUOTE=SHIFTY101EASY]BTW InvestorMan - I bought at $2.24, its now at $2.17...so a 7 cent loss. Im not fretting though, gonna wait and see if it will rise again soon.[/QUOTE] [SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Good on you, Shifty. I'll keep an eye on it for you, and don't worry about your investment. If MicroIslet doesn't make a move soon, we'll bail out of it with a small loss and get into something better. Your money is safe with me.[/FONT][/SIZE]"

LanceJ said: "[QUOTE=InvestorMan][SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Why the hell am I in this forum putting up with weasle-ass comments from fools like you...Of course, you won't say MicroIslet is not a good recommendation because you don't have the guts to commit either way.[/FONT][/SIZE][/QUOTE] Your use of the word "fools" in the plural form, and then your challenge to comment on MicroIslet and anyone who doesn't does not have "guts" has peaked my interest. May I ask if you are challenging someone in particular or everyone? Because if you really want me to comment on this stock and why I think it's a bad investment, I will. I try not to comment on someone elses picks unless the specifically ask "What do you think about this one?" out of professional courtesy. But your use of the word "fools" instead of "fool" and statement of not having enough guts, is sort of like a challenge to everyone, and you have opened yourself up to fair game/attacks of your stock picks by making general statements like that. I'll let this one slide, but if you really want me to comment on why I think MicroIslet is not a good investment, let me know."

LanceJ said: "[QUOTE=InvestorMan][SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Your money is safe with me.[/FONT][/SIZE][/QUOTE] 1) Nothing is safe in the stock market. Everything has risk. If nothing is safe in the stock market, and you are recommending stocks, then how can you make the statement "Your money is safe with me"? You can't. No one can. 2) If anybody ever tells you "your money is safe with me", you better grab your money and run the other way. 3) You better be very careful because the SEC monitors message forums like this one. The SEC aggressively goes after people who recommend stocks that are not licensed stock brokers, and who make statements like "your money is safe with me". That is why you must always say somewhere that you are not a licensed broker, you should state that your messages are for entertainment purposes only, and you must accurately state to the best of your ability the risks associated with investing. Making the claim that "your money is safe with me" crosses the line and could very well land you in trouble with the SEC should someone file a complaint against you, and give the SEC this statement. Professionals do not make these kind of statements."

thezster said: "[QUOTE=InvestorMan][SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Good on you, Shifty. I'll keep an eye on it for you, and don't worry about your investment. If MicroIslet doesn't make a move soon, we'll bail out of it with a small loss and get into something better. Your money is safe with me.[/FONT][/SIZE][/QUOTE] Let's see.... as I read it.... "if it doesn't make a move soon... we'll bail.... with only a 8 - 10% loss of your capital (assuming $7.95/trade - bought at 2.24 ....... down to 2.17 today with a low of 2.08). That's kinda my point. Me... I'm a nobody... been trading for only 6 years - and have been extremely lucky (rather be lucky than good). Average 30% return on my capital after commissions (which average $12,000/year @ 7.95/trade.) I've been asked by numerous people to "teach them.... give them tips"... but know I don't want to be responsible for someone elses money - especially someone who possibly/probably can't afford to lose $300.00. I joined this forum to see what other folks rationale is for what they do... not to pick up "tips". It's enjoyable and something to do between trades during the day. I don't make a recommendation either way on MII.... because I don't play penny stocks any more... had my fill years ago. As I said, it might be a good recommendation....... I just can't see buying stocks on a forum "tip". Not a question of "guts"... I kinda figure that when I buy 5000 - 10,000 shares of, for instance HD... for a 24 - 48 hour play........... I've got as much "guts" as anyone. My comment was not a comment on your abilities - or lack of ability - to make a good recommendation......... but rather someone's rationale for making a buy. On the other hand, your tirade and lack of professionalism shown by it.... tend to make me wonder."

thezster said: "By the way, we were known as "Tunnel Rats" - not "weasels" up and down the Ho Chi Minh trail...... and I don't recall meeting you there."

SHIFTY101EASY said: "your not allowed to voice your opinion on a stock unless you have a license? seems ridiculous kind of... oh well... its not like hes holding a gun to my head and forcing me to throw my money away, whether or not hes a real licensed stock broker, he was correct on the last few, and i didnt really have anything in mind that looked much better. I didnt put all my money into it either. I invested PART of what i can afford to lose in MII. The bottom line is, you shouldnt be putting one cent into the market unless your willing to risk losing it. Obviously im willing to take that risk since its such a small amount of money. thanks for the concern...but dont get into a big argument over the internet, its pointless. P.S. Why do you think MII is a bad stock?"

LanceJ said: ""your not allowed to voice your opinion on a stock unless you have a license? seems ridiculous kind of..." Voicing your opinion, and saying "PUT YOUR MONEY HERE, YOU CAN TRUST ME, YOUR MONEY IS SAFE WITH ME" are two completely different activities. Further, when you understand the reason behind the SEC and their stock recommendation laws that protect consumers/investors, it makes a lot of sense and is why, we as a society, permit this. But the reasoning for this goes beyond the scope of this message thread. Suffice to say, without this law, we would live in a world where everyone would be using the "pump and dump" stock scam on each other (something that low liquidity penny stocks are very susceptible to)... that amounts to John buying the stock at $0.00015, and then hyping it to Fred who buys and forces the price up to $0.0002, and then John sells, taking his profit which forces the price back down to $0.00015... John just effectively took Fred's money through stock equity... John never REALLY thought the stock would go up and he lied through his teeth to Fred about it being a good pick that was about to double in value any day now, he was more into convicing Fred to buy it so that he could sell for a profit, especially if he earned Fred's confidence in the past, and so Fred told him he was going to buy $20,000 worth. This is a first level pump and dump... the pros would be using 2nd and third level pump and dump scams where they actually manipulate the price of the stock for people to gain confidence in.. making it run up 20% or more with their own money or money of associates in on the scam, getting other people to invest, and then selling. And this is just one aspect, one scam that this law makes it harder to do. There are many others. But again, I don't have the time to go into more scenarios here. Suffice to say, arguing over the Internet is pointless as you stated, I therefore exit myself from this conversation. This is my last post in this message thread as it seems you have been adequately warned by some of the caring folks at SuperiorInvestor.net Good luck on your following the recommendations of Investorman, and I sincerely hope you don't loose too much money in penny stocks, and remember, the SEC is your friend, and you want to keep all correspondence in case you have to file a complaint with them in the future about bogus investment advice, and outrageous claims such as "your money is safe with me" if you later discover or think that the person was not honest with you for their own personal gain."

SHIFTY101EASY said: "All good points. I dont think my tiny investment will move the price up much...even if thats what he was schemeing...and hey...im a begginner...i just was looking for suggestions...i bought other ones too....still have some cash left over for tomorrow if i find some other stocks i like.....so i dono...best of luck to all of you. if i find something that catches my eye i will ask for opinions...but take each one with a grain of salt and realize it could be a opinion with an agenda. thanks, on both side."

thezster said: "Shifty, you have mail."

SHIFTY101EASY said: "back at ya thezster. :o"

InvestorMan said: "[QUOTE=LanceJ]Your use of the word "fools" in the plural form, and then your challenge to comment on MicroIslet and anyone who doesn't does not have "guts" has peaked my interest. May I ask if you are challenging someone in particular or everyone? Because if you really want me to comment on this stock and why I think it's a bad investment, I will. I try not to comment on someone elses picks unless the specifically ask "What do you think about this one?" out of professional courtesy. But your use of the word "fools" instead of "fool" and statement of not having enough guts, is sort of like a challenge to everyone, and you have opened yourself up to fair game/attacks of your stock picks by making general statements like that. I'll let this one slide, but if you really want me to comment on why I think MicroIslet is not a good investment, let me know.[/QUOTE] [SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Lance, I never mentioned you at all in this thread. Why did you jump in when I mentioned fools? Maybe you recognize yourself as a fool. Thank you for identifying yourself to the rest of us. By the way, I never said anyone who challenges my advice on MicroIslet is a fool. Let me explain what makes a fool: A fool criticizes other people's work without having anything positive to offer in return. A fool constantly misquotes people and facts (check out the SEC rules, by the way). A fool makes fun of other people's questions or advice. A fool gives WRONG answers to simple questions, yet blankets his/her answers in an air of authority. Any critical comments on MicroIslet will be welcomed. What I don't welcome is lies or groundless criticisms, and I'll address them as I have time.[/FONT][/SIZE]"

InvestorMan said: "[QUOTE=LanceJ]1) Nothing is safe in the stock market. Everything has risk. If nothing is safe in the stock market, and you are recommending stocks, then how can you make the statement "Your money is safe with me"? You can't. No one can. 2) If anybody ever tells you "your money is safe with me", you better grab your money and run the other way. 3) You better be very careful because the SEC monitors message forums like this one. The SEC aggressively goes after people who recommend stocks that are not licensed stock brokers, and who make statements like "your money is safe with me". That is why you must always say somewhere that you are not a licensed broker, you should state that your messages are for entertainment purposes only, and you must accurately state to the best of your ability the risks associated with investing. Making the claim that "your money is safe with me" crosses the line and could very well land you in trouble with the SEC should someone file a complaint against you, and give the SEC this statement. Professionals do not make these kind of statements.[/QUOTE] [SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Shifty's money is safe with me because I don't have much tolerance for risk and I exit losing positions quickly while letting my winners run, and my winners run BIG. I run a portfolio with a beta of 0.16, making it about SIX TIMES SAFER than investing in the S&P. That's why I can say "your money is safe with me". I maximize return on investment while protecting portfolio's from risk. That's my JOB. If I don't do my job well, why should I keep doing it? On the other hand, Lance, you say investors should take their money and run from advisors who say their money is safe with them. What do you tell your clients? Do you tell them their money is NOT safe with you?? Or do you tell them you don't know?? If that's the case, what are they paying you for??? I'd really like to know. As regards to the SEC rules, as usual, you are mistaken again. No professional investment advisor can guarantee any [I]one particular investment[/I]. Of course, I may be wrong about any particular investment, but there is nothing wrong with telling clients that you will protect their portfolio. So either, you have misquoted yourself again, or you're just plain lying. Obviously, you have some personal beef with me that's affecting your judgment. So, just to reiterate, Shifty, [B]YOUR MONEY IS SAFE WITH ME!!![/B] Now, Lance, PLEASE report me to the SEC. Let THEM tell you what a fool you are. Maybe then you'll believe it.[/FONT][/SIZE]"

SHIFTY101EASY said: "not to chime in or take sides or imply someone is superior to the other...but im just curious... are you guys both professional stock brokers or do you just "recreationally invest"? im interested in a career in the stock market whether it be stock brokering or something else but dont really know where to start...or what courses to take in college...or just anything....i should probably start a new thread....but oh well."

InvestorMan said: "[QUOTE=SHIFTY101EASY]not to chime in or take sides or imply someone is superior to the other...but im just curious... are you guys both professional stock brokers or do you just "recreationally invest"? im interested in a career in the stock market whether it be stock brokering or something else but dont really know where to start...or what courses to take in college...or just anything....i should probably start a new thread....but oh well.[/QUOTE] [SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Hi Shifty. I live in Western Canada and I have a broker's certificate from the Canadian Securities Institute. About four years ago, I joined a website called [URL=http://www.marketocracy.com]Marketocracy[/URL]. Marketocracy allows investors, amateur or not, to build mock mutual funds. Of the 70,000 some odd members, the top 100 are inducted into a group called the m100 and their stock picks are added to a REAL fund called the [URL=http://funds.marketocracy.com/mof/]Masters 100 Fund[/URL]. I am a member of the m100, making one of the top 100 investors out of more than 70,000. On top of that, my beta, which measures the risk factor of your portfolio against the S&P 500, is less than 1.00, making my investments actually SAFER than the S&P 500. I took these results to brokerage firms in my area. They actually told me that they are not really interested in results, only in how much money I could bring into the firm. In other words, do I have a lot of friends and relatives with a lot of money? They want me to bring a five-year plan showing how many people I can suck in to their firms in that time. I was a bit disappointed at their attitude, but not shocked. The brokerage business is a numbers game like anything else. What really matters to brokerage firms is how much income they can generate in commissions. Making good return on investment for their clients is not as important. For this reason, 80% of the mutual fund managers out there return LESS than the basic S&P 500. So I went private instead. I give clients good stock recommendations and I base my reputation on the success or failure of that advice. I don't wiffle-waffle and I don't make excuses. If you want to become a broker and you're in the U.S., it's actually pretty easy to do. You need a clean criminal record, you have to be an adult, and you have to pass a couple tests, one of which I know is called the Series 3, another is the Securities and Exchange Commission rules and regulations. Someone else might be able to give you more details about these. These tests are pretty easy to pass, so any fool out there can become a stockbroker. It's not hard. Now, please don't get me wrong. I am NOT saying that every licensed broker is a fool, but considering that most of them UNDERPERFORM the S&P, I think I can safely say that a good lot of these folks would probably do us all a favor by going into the used car sales business instead. For this reason, when a person is looking for an investment advisor, I think the worst question they can ask is "Are you licensed?". As you can see by the numbers, having a license doesn't necessarily make you a good stock analyst. Maybe better questions would be "Do you deliver Return On Investment, and how can you prove it?" Keep in mind that most of the members of the Marketocracy m100 are not licensed brokers, yet these are the elite analysts in the investment world. I thought I might give you a little bit of free advice while I'm on this forum, but, as with just about anywhere on the worldwide web these days, there are always a couple spoilers out there who want to mess things up for everyone else. I'm sure my success is just eating them alive. By the way, I didn't notice anyone comment that MicroIslet was up 27 cents today, a gain of 12.74%.[/FONT][/SIZE]"

InvestorMan said: "[SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]By the way, just to make it clear, it is NOT illegal or a violation of SEC regulations for me to give stock recommendations to anyone. If more of the talented people out there shared their skill, the world would be a much better place.[/FONT][/SIZE]"

InvestorMan said: "[QUOTE=thezster]Let's see.... as I read it.... "if it doesn't make a move soon... we'll bail.... with only a 8 - 10% loss of your capital (assuming $7.95/trade - bought at 2.24 ....... down to 2.17 today with a low of 2.08). That's kinda my point. Me... I'm a nobody... been trading for only 6 years - and have been extremely lucky (rather be lucky than good). Average 30% return on my capital after commissions (which average $12,000/year @ 7.95/trade.) I've been asked by numerous people to "teach them.... give them tips"... but know I don't want to be responsible for someone elses money - especially someone who possibly/probably can't afford to lose $300.00. I joined this forum to see what other folks rationale is for what they do... not to pick up "tips". It's enjoyable and something to do between trades during the day. I don't make a recommendation either way on MII.... because I don't play penny stocks any more... had my fill years ago. As I said, it might be a good recommendation....... I just can't see buying stocks on a forum "tip". Not a question of "guts"... I kinda figure that when I buy 5000 - 10,000 shares of, for instance HD... for a 24 - 48 hour play........... I've got as much "guts" as anyone. My comment was not a comment on your abilities - or lack of ability - to make a good recommendation......... but rather someone's rationale for making a buy. On the other hand, your tirade and lack of professionalism shown by it.... tend to make me wonder.[/QUOTE] [SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Your comment was obviously intended to cast doubt on a trade or trading strategy that you know nothing about. Why would you want to do that? Yes, you are making fun of Shifty's "rationale for making a buy", as if he's somehow stupid and you are criticizing my advice, too, though you didn't know anything about me when you piped in to this thread. Why would you do that? The only answer I can come up with is that, for some reason, you want to generate fear here, using wild phrases like "betting the farm" and "can't afford to lose $300". You are generating fear where there should be none. It's a pretty straightforward stock play, which is not going to drop in value to zero tomorrow, unless the company suddenly and inexplicably goes bankrupt, so he's hardly "betting the farm" on this trade. This thread was happy and peaceful until you piped in with your comments, and the only reason I can think that you would pipe in with these negative comments is that you are just fear-mongering. That makes you a weasel. Now, if you are truly making 30% a year for the past six years, I commend you, but your [I]faux[/I] humility ("I'm not good, I'm lucky") doesn't impress me. You'd have to be pretty good to make 30% a year these past six years, but if you're so good, why don't you share your talent with these "numerous people" who are asking for your help? I don't buy the excuse that you don't want to be responsible for their money. You could simply tell them what stocks you have in your portfolio and let them decide if they want to assume the risk. The fact that you don't do that makes me wonder what kind of a human being you are. Maybe you're not a fool after all. Maybe you're just a prick. And if my calling you a prick insults your idea of professionalism, then so be it. I call them as I see them, and that's what makes my clients rich. Sure, if we were having a debate on CNBC, I would definitely be more diplomatic in my choice of words, and, though I wouldn't use the word "prick", I would definitely be implying it. The audience would get the point. Here at superiorinvestor.net, I just want to save us all a lot of time and call you a prick. Now I don't come to these forums to argue anymore than most people, so, seeing as you're nothing but a weasel and fool or prick, I think it'll be better to just not pay attention to your negative comments in the future.[/FONT] [/SIZE]"

SHIFTY101EASY said: "[QUOTE=InvestorMan][SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]By the way, I didn't notice anyone comment that MicroIslet was up 27 cents today, a gain of 12.74%.[/FONT][/SIZE][/QUOTE] I did, it was just in a private message. Good climb there. Thanks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- As stated before im not taking sides here. Im sorry if i have caused a message board war. Everyone is differnt and has differnt opinions, ideals, and beliefs. I know both sides make great points and I thank you all for caring so much and trying to help me in the ways you see fit. It means a lot."

HappyHarry said: "InvestorMan, you seem way to worked up for the valid and minor criticism you received. And please stay away from "ad hominem" attacks. You can attack people's ideas, without attacking people."

InvestorMan said: "[QUOTE=HappyHarry]InvestorMan, you seem way to worked up for the valid and minor criticism you received. And please stay away from "ad hominem" attacks. You can attack people's ideas, without attacking people.[/QUOTE] [SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]Yes, Harry, this kind of criticism is minor, but not valid. "Valid" criticism must be "informed" criticism. Is it my stock recommendations that these two object to, or is it me? I don't see any valid points arguing the wisdom of my stock recommendations themselves. As a matter of fact, I don't see any points arguing my stock recommendations at all. Therefore, the "ad hominem" attacks were directed at Shifty and me, not the other way around. If you don't think it's wise to take stock recommendations from a public forum, don't do it. Some folks get rich from advice they got in a public forum. If it's not right for you, that doesn't mean it isn't right for anyone else. So, let's take a look at the quote that started this whole hoopla:[/FONT][/SIZE] [QUOTE=thezster]Fascinating, absolutely fascinating. I can't imagine dumping my hard earned cash into a stock with little more than a faceless recommendation from this board. Granted a few hundred bucks isn't much... but to some folks, it's like betting the farm........ Not to say it's not a good recommendation....... but hey....... c'mon............[/QUOTE] [SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]There are no valid points here, just a cheap shot. As for Lance, it's obvious he uses this forum to advertise his business, and it's in his best interest to give the appearance that he actually knows what he's talking about, so he probably has a score to settle with me because I corrected him when he misquoted Warren Buffett. Unfortunately, he tried to settle that score by making more false statements. If I were to give him the benefit of the doubt, all I could say is that maybe Lance doesn't understand Securities and Exchange commission regulations, which, I would think, severely impairs his ability to do his job well... I would think. Nevertheless, it's obvious that not only are these cheap shots and misinformation tolerated, but even encouraged. Frankly, I'd rather be on Yahoo! The forum is all yours, Lance. Good luck with it.[/FONT][/SIZE]"

HappyHarry said: "You're the one who name-called. That is ad hominem. If you have to consult a dictionary, do so. And actually, I agree with every word theZster said. Only a complete moron takes advice from a message board and does NO research at all. Lance was also correct in saying that anyone who says "your money is safe with me" is highly dubious to begin with."

poldo said: "[QUOTE=dsm091]well maybe I worded it wrong. But you guys were right on track, I want something that I can get a lot of shares in. Something longer term, I havent been spending a dime since I got to Iraq, and I have limited capabilities from here. But if you want to say that I should be looking at something else other than stock price than dont help. How hard is it not to post? Thanks for the ones that did help.[/QUOTE] PVX canadian oil trust trading around $12 pays high dividends and HDTV at around $4.45 these are my favorite picks look them up they both have great potential especially HDTV PVX is trading around their 52 week high and shows no sign of slowing down as long as oil prices stay this high also sirius satellite radio SIRI would be a good choice for the long term"

StockFreak said: "Poldo im in HDTV :eek: Next generation high def. Forget SIRI and XM here comes HD radio. Out of the two id take XM but after a terrible experience with their customer service department this weekend makes me think forget them both."

poldo said: "[QUOTE=StockFreak]Poldo im in HDTV :eek: Next generation high def. Forget SIRI and XM here comes HD radio. Out of the two id take XM but after a terrible experience with their customer service department this weekend makes me think forget them both.[/QUOTE] maybe HDTV will make us all rich :) I think both XM and siri are going to follow each other they are showing great numbers of subscribers i bet on siri because of the howard stern show, that crap brings listeners ... I don't own siri or xm but I think this holiday in this order: ipod nano, satellite radio and hdtv will be the best selling items at the retailers and it will show in their stock at least in the short term. Hopefully LG will become the next SONY and HDTV will benefit greatly what a ride hdtv :-)"

HappyHarry said: ""Satellite Radio" - 2 words with a lot of hype behind them."

LanceJ said: "[QUOTE=poldo]maybe HDTV will make us all rich [/QUOTE] To make you rich, it's got to go the other way guy. [CENTER][IMG]http://www.acethecset.com/hdtv.GIF[/IMG] [/CENTER] The volume spikes suggest a big seller is out there, possibly an institution or mutual fund(s) are reducing their position in this stock (all on the sell side). The 50 day MA came up to kiss the 200 day MA then fell back down, with the 200 day MA now chasing saying please, kiss me again. The 200 day MA is a sort of resistance point, not good. Notice on this stocks 4 month downward trend, you don't have volume increasing. A stock will not fall forever on increasing volume, but I see no volume increasing as this stock has fell, meaning that even though it's 40% below its $7 price, investors are still not buying. Go through the SEC quarterlies and find out why, you will usually find a reason by looking deeper into the books. I would hold off on buying until the downward trend ends, and an upward trend forms on rising volume. I may not buy at anytime with those volume spikes on the sell side suggesting some massive institutional/mutual fund selling. So wait for the volume spikes to dry up on the sell side as well."

poldo said: "[QUOTE=LanceJ]To make you rich, it's got to go the other way guy. [CENTER][IMG]http://www.acethecset.com/hdtv.GIF[/IMG] [/CENTER] The volume spikes suggest a big seller is out there, possibly an institution or mutual fund(s) are reducing their position in this stock (all on the sell side). The 50 day MA came up to kiss the 200 day MA then fell back down, with the 200 day MA now chasing saying please, kiss me again. The 200 day MA is a sort of resistance point, not good. Notice on this stocks 4 month downward trend, you don't have volume increasing. A stock will not fall forever on increasing volume, but I see no volume increasing as this stock has fell, meaning that even though it's 40% below its $7 price, investors are still not buying. Go through the SEC quarterlies and find out why, you will usually find a reason by looking deeper into the books. I would hold off on buying until the downward trend ends, and an upward trend forms on rising volume. I may not buy at anytime with those volume spikes on the sell side suggesting some massive institutional/mutual fund selling. So wait for the volume spikes to dry up on the sell side as well.[/QUOTE] Yes you are right about the volume and the reason is the SEC opened an "informal"probe go back a few months and you'll see the volume spikes are on the buying I think the investors are sitting and whatching... I might be wrong however I am investing on this one for the long run.. I am not day trading the stock and for the long run I think this is a great buy. the make us all rich thing was a joke"

poldo said: "I know we (hdtv holders) are all waiting for LG(so far the larget HDTV customer) to make their first major order as now HDTV has been certified by them, LG has ordered a smaller amount of chips for product testing but they are in an agreement to buy esclusively HDTV for 12 months extendable to 24 and so on In other words LG is planning thir flat screen business around HDTV lcos chip with an "enormous" potential for HDTV to grow fast in the next 2 years"

LanceJ said: "[QUOTE=poldo]you'll see the volume spikes are on the buying [/QUOTE] Look at the chart I took the time to make above....geezzz... you can clearly see the volume spikes are on the selling side as evidenced in the price of the stock dropping. If the huge volume spikes were on the buy side, you would see the stock rise immediately on and just after the volume spike. The fact that you see the stock price dropping tells you that the volume spikes are more people selling than buying hence it's continuing to push the stock down. If the stock were in an upward trend the last 4 months, I would agree with you. Secondly, you never buy into a downward trend. You might buy at what you think is a bottom, but I don't see a bottom (resistance level/sideways trading) forming and holding yet in the chart which means it's still officially in a downward trend. A trend will continue until that trend ends. On days the stock trades sideways, assume continuation of the previous trend. It is wise then to not "force the trade" and wait until a confirmed upward trend starts/if it starts."

poldo said: "[QUOTE=LanceJ]Look at the chart I took the time to make above....geezzz... you can clearly see the volume spikes are on the selling side as evidenced in the price of the stock dropping. If the huge volume spikes were on the buy side, you would see the stock rise immediately on and just after the volume spike. The fact that you see the stock price dropping tells you that the volume spikes are more people selling than buying hence it's continuing to push the stock down. If the stock were in an upward trend the last 4 months, I would agree with you. Secondly, you never buy into a downward trend. You might buy at what you think is a bottom, but I don't see a bottom (resistance level/sideways trading) forming and holding yet in the chart which means it's still officially in a downward trend. A trend will continue until that trend ends. On days the stock trades sideways, assume continuation of the previous trend. It is wise then to not "force the trade" and wait until a confirmed upward trend starts/if it starts.[/QUOTE] You are right I didn't mean to say the volume spikes [B]are[/B] on the buy side I meant to say that spikes are also on the buy side , sorry for the confusion I do agree about the larger volume being on the sell side however if you look more closely at the historical price/volume day by day you can see buy spikes double the average volume 20-Sep-05 open $4.56 close $4.95 volume 1,613,900 but you are still right, on a technical stand point hdtv is a looser, as you can see by my post I am also speculating on the future of hdtv which I believe could be bright ."

LanceJ said: "Business "We are currently offering two types of products to our customers and prospective customers, all of whom are located primarily in Asia. One product is our LCoS Set, which is comprised of three of our proprietary SpatiaLight imagEngine(TM) LCoS microdisplays. They are constructed with a silicon chip, a layer of liquid crystals and a glass cover plate in contrast to the more common construction of liquid crystals sandwiched between two glass plates. Our displays are also known as, and commonly referred to as, liquid crystal on silicon (LCoS), liquid crystal displays (LCD), active matrix liquid crystal displays and spatial light modulators." EPS HDTV reported 2nd quarter 2005 losses of $0.10 per share on August 9, 2005. This missed the $0.07 loss expectation of the 5 analysts following the company. For the 6 months ended 6/30/05, revenues fell 84% to $139K. Net loss rose 33% to $5.7M. Revenues reflect the loss of revenue from LG Electronics. Net loss was partially offset by the inclusion of gain from the revaluation of note purchase option liability. Valuation Because this company has no earnings, we have no P/E ratio. So instead we look at the P/S ratio which is 364.5, where as the industry average is 2.9 It's P/B is 218.5, while the industry average is 2.84. So valuation speaking, she's still overvalued even though she's plummeted over the last 4 months. Profitability Losing money on an operating basis, HDTV has poor profitability characteristics in comparison to its Photography industry peers. While its gross margin is below average, its operating and net margins are among the lowest in the industry. Growth HDTV saw earnings decline over the last twelve months, although at a slower rate than the decline in revenues. Additionally, the average company in the Photography industry was able to improve its earnings result over this same period. Management Effectiveness HDTV is very inefficient in comparison to it's peers with a Return on Assets, Revenues Per Employee, and Return on Equity of -110.88%, $14,667, and -457.34% respectively. Despite only below average performance at managing their owner's equity, the company is among the worst at managing their resources and at generating revenues from employees compared to other companies in the Photography industry. Financial Strength HDTV is one of the most highly leveraged companies in the Photography industry and has a Debt to Total Capital ratio of 93.30%. Additionally, the percentage of debt used in its capital structure grew this year. Its Interest Coverage ratio is only -5.6x, which means that it does not earn enough from day-to-day operations to service its debt. However, the Quick ratio shows that the balance sheet can make up for this shortfall as there are enough liquid assets to satisfy current obligations. Analysis of 10Q Quarterly report filed with the SEC yesterday, 9/29/05 Their revenue relies almost exclusively on LG Electronics and their LCos products. This is a high risk proposition in that if they fall out of bed with LG Electronics, they will probably go under as a company. The company discloses: "Of our total revenue in 2005, 78% was derived from the sales of our LCoS Sets to LG Electronics, a customer located in the Republic of Korea. The remaining 22% was derived from the sales of our LCoS Sets to customers in Hong Kong, Taiwan, China and the United States. For the three and six months ended June 30, 2005, 98% and 78% of our revenue was derived from LG Electronics, respectively. This customer made up 100% of our accounts receivable balance at June 30, 2005." and "In the first half of 2005, a substantial percentage of our product deliveries, which were in small quantities, were made to LG Electronics. Based upon our agreement with LG Electronics and our present expectations, it is likely that a substantial percentage of our anticipated future product deliveries in 2005 will be made to LG Electronics as well. The loss of LG Electronics as a customer or any delays in our delivery schedule to LG Electronics could harm our future sales or results of operations." and "The loss of this customer and our inability to obtain additional purchase orders from our current or prospective customers to replace the lost expected revenue in a timely manner could harm our sales or results of operations. Accounts receivable from this customer accounted for 100% of total accounts receivable as of June 30, 2005." China and Taiwan "To date, we have delivered limited quantities of our microdisplay products to our Chinese and Taiwanese customers. A substantial portion of our product deliveries were in 2004. The quantities of our products delivered to our Chinese and Taiwanese customers are sufficient only for engineering testing and pilot program purposes. To date, our Chinese and Taiwanese customers have not ordered quantities of our products..." China and Taiwan have had ample time to place some order, any order, since 2004. It suggests China and Taiwan may have taken their business elsewhere."

LanceJ said: "On the Balance Sheet, cash and cash equivalents for June 30, 2005 are $390,925 where as December 31, 2004 show $9,087,551. They burned through a lot of cash on their new manufacturing facility in Korea. The company explains: "As of June 30, 2005, we had approximately $391,000 in cash and cash equivalents, a decrease of approximately $8.7 million from the December 31, 2004 balance of approximately $9.1 million. Our net working capital at June 30, 2005 was approximately $1.5 million compared to a net working capital of approximately $8.6 million at December 31, 2004. This decrease in working capital was primarily due to the use of cash to fund the construction of our manufacturing facility in Korea including the purchase of the equipment for that facility, as well as to fund our operating expenses." On the Statements of Operations, we have revenue taking a MAJOR drop from the 6 month period ending June 30, 2004 of $859,875 to $138,908 for the 6 month period ending June 30, 2005. This represents a brutal 84% decline in revenue. The company explains: "Revenue for the six-month period in 2005 was from the sale of LCoS Sets and supporting electronics. Revenue in the same period of 2004 was primarily from the sale of display units. Our revenue for the first half of 2005 was lower than the comparable period in 2004 because LCoS Sets have a lower sales price than display units and because our sales strategy has changed... The second quarter 2005 revenue was derived primarily from sales of LCoS Sets to LG Electronics in order to reach the specifications required to fulfill the our agreement with LG Electronics. During the same period for 2004, we recognized sales of display units to our Chinese customers, of which a portion was later written off as uncollectible." The expenses look just as bad. On Statements of Operations, their interest expense alone increased from $411,512 for the 6 months ending June 2004, to $1,090,094 for the 6 months ending June 2005. This company is burrowing money to keep afloat. The company explains: "Interest expense for the three months ended June 30, 2005 increased approximately $250,000 from the same period in 2004 due to the issuance of the $10 million of Senior Secured Convertible Notes in November 2004, which accrues interest at 10% annually. For the six months ended June 30, 2005, interest expense totaled approximately $535,000, resulting in an approximate $499,000 increase over the same period in 2004. The increase was the result of the November 2004 Senior Secured Convertible Notes." Raising money via convertibles rather than sales is brutal, the company writes: "Furthermore, the 2004 Senior Secured Convertible Notes are secured by virtually all of the assets of our Company, other than those located in Korea, and it may therefore be difficult for us to obtain future debt financing" The company explains the dire situation they are in: "We have a history of losses and may incur losses in the future and therefore cannot assure you that we will achieve profitability. We have incurred losses to date and have experienced cash shortages. For the six months ended June 30, 2005, we incurred net losses of approximately $5.7 million. In addition, we had an accumulated deficit of approximately $73.3 million as of June 30, 2005. We expect additional losses as we continue spending for commercial scale production and other business activities as well as further research and development of our products. As a result, we will need to generate substantial sales to support our costs of doing business before we can begin to recoup our operating losses and accumulated deficit" and "While we have obtained financing and financing commitments that we expect will be sufficient to fund our currently anticipated financial needs at least through the second quarter of 2006, if we are unable to obtain further financing in the future or generate required working capital for future capital needs, our ability to operate could suffer or cease." Are the costs going to get under control soon? Probably not. The company writes: "We currently have nine full-time engineering and ten full-time manufacturing personnel based in California working on microdisplays. We are currently actively hiring personnel for our manufacturing facility located in the Republic of Korea. We currently have 6 full-time engineering and 27 full-time manufacturing personnel based in the Republic of Korea and we expect to hire an additional 5 engineers and 150 manufacturing personnel by the end of 2005. This staffing creates significant operational and research and development costs that may not be recouped. Even if our current LCoS Sets become accepted and/or successful, we must continue to use, and may increase in number, our engineering and manufacturing personnel to develop future generations of our microdisplays because of the rapid technological changes in our industry. As a result, we expect to continue incurring significant operational and research and development costs." What is interesting also is that their LCoS sets were not chosen by China or Taiwan. They shipped some of their sets to China and Taiwan in 2004, but no contracts. The company warns: "We currently have purchase order agreements with a limited number of customers. Despite our reasonable efforts to retain these customers and obtain new customers, we may not be successful in either of these regards. The loss of any one or more of these customers or a failure to obtain new customers could materially harm our business and financial condition. We may become largely dependent on one customer for our future revenues, and failure to expand our customer base or receive additional orders from our existing customer base will make us vulnerable to substantial loss of potential revenues." So who are some of their competitors that China and Taiwan may have decided to go with instead? There was an industry shoot-out to compare the competing digital TV technologies but HDTV didn't show. Forbes writes: "SpatiaLight (HDTV) agreed to participate but was unable to deliver its prototype in time for the shoot-out." Unable to deliver even a prototype? Here you have the chance of a lifetime to show off that you have the best technology and are confident that you do, and then you don't show? You can't even bring a prototype to the site? Sony pretty much did the same thing. In any event, their competition is: Sony, JVC, Samsung, Brillian Corp, and Corning Inc, to name a few. Talk about stiff competition against these established giants. Who wants to compete against Sony or JVC? What, no hands? It would be cool though if one of these companies bought them out, but I see no talk of takeovers at the moment, the technology is still too new and changing. I reiterate my opinion that it is not good to buy this company, that is increasingly going into major debt (and may have trouble raising additional money as their Convertible Notes are already secured by virtually all of their assets) while it is in a downward trend. I would wait to see if this company can land a new contract with LG. I would wait to see if this company can get another customer, any customer, other than LG. Too much dependency on one customer is not a good thing. I want to see the revenue go up, not down like last quarter. I want to see them begin to pay down their debt, or at least hold flat, rather than continuing to go deeper and deeper in debt. I want this company to prove it can compete profitably against the likes of Sony, JVC, and Samsung. I would wait until an established upward trend forms with a crossover to the upside of the 200 day MA by the 50 day MA, on rising volume."

poldo said: "[QUOTE=LanceJ]There was an industry shoot-out to compare the competing digital TV technologies but HDTV didn't show. Forbes writes: "SpatiaLight (HDTV) agreed to participate but was unable to deliver its prototype in time for the shoot-out." Unable to deliver even a prototype? Here you have the chance of a lifetime to show off that you have the best technology and are confident that you do, and then you don't show? You can't even bring a prototype to the site? Sony pretty much did the same thing. [/QUOTE] LG was not able to produce a prototype not HDTV their reason was that at the time they were not ready.. nothing wrong with that no takeover talks yet but it is a possibility in the future"

LanceJ said: "[QUOTE=poldo]LG was not able to produce a prototype not HDTV their reason was that at the time they were not ready.. nothing wrong with that no takeover talks yet but it is a possibility in the future[/QUOTE] It was an opportunity they could have easily captured. Especially for a tiny company like this at a competitive disadvantage. As a small boy playing against big boys, you want as much publicity as possible if you believe you have a superior product. Often, tiny companies don't have it in their budget to get the exposure they need in relation to what their larger competitors are doing. This was an excellent opportunity to get low cost exposure and to get your product out there and better known. Instead, JVC walked away with multiple rewards and a excellent review in Forbes magazine as a result. The technology is still so new and changing that its hard to assess value in a product that may be obsolete tomorrow. If you are holding on to this stock because of the possibility in the future of a takeover, I think you'll be holding for many years. Finally, would you want to buy a company that is going into massive debt like this? Whose market value is tumbling? Let's do the numbers. The enterprise value is $170 million. If you had a $170 million dollars, would you want to buy this company? The industry is just to new yet and no talk on Wall Street about anyone looking to takeover for this to be a viable reason to buy or hold this stock in the present."

LanceJ said: "And what's with it with your signature line and those bogus funds listed there? You started out just a day ago claiming that you were thinking about investing money in them and wanted to know everyone elses opinion. A day later you have them on your sig. line advertising them? So I guess you took the plunge. Sort of right over and off the cliff. Nah... I think it's possible you already made up your mind to invest in them before even posting your message. You were just looking for ways to get exposure to refer more people to them. I treated you as a genuine person who was wondering. Therefore I spent a great deal of my time pointing out the problems with these and why they are scams. I guess I did that for nothing as the whole question message you posted was just a ruse. So which is it? Did you ignore excellent advice and go right off the cliff, blinded by your desire to make the kind of returns these bogus scams claim? Or did you already investment money in these funds and just posted a bogus "I was wondering that you think" message to get exposure and try and refer others to them? I notice your referral account is in each hyperlink."

InvestorMan said: "[QUOTE=HappyHarry]You're the one who name-called. That is ad hominem. If you have to consult a dictionary, do so. And actually, I agree with every word theZster said. Only a complete moron takes advice from a message board and does NO research at all. Lance was also correct in saying that anyone who says "your money is safe with me" is highly dubious to begin with.[/QUOTE] [SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana]"Ad Hominem" is a phrase used to describe a verbal attack that is designed to appeal to emotion rather than to logic or reason. Ad Hominem attacks are not only isolated to name-calling, but to any kind of emotional attack, so, while we're on the subject, wouldn't calling someone a "complete moron" be considered both name-calling and an ad hominem attack? How about "dubious"? What logic or reason are you using to call my claims dubious? Because if you don't have a [I]reason[/I] to call my claim dubious, that would also be an ad hominem attack. If you say "ad hominem" attacks are unacceptable and then you commit them, doesn't that make you a hypocrite, Harry... or would that be just me making another ad hominem attack?[/FONT][/SIZE]"

poldo said: "[QUOTE=LanceJ]And what's with it with your signature line and those bogus funds listed there? You started out just a day ago claiming that you were thinking about investing money in them and wanted to know everyone elses opinion. A day later you have them on your sig. line advertising them? So I guess you took the plunge. Sort of right over and off the cliff. Nah... I think it's possible you already made up your mind to invest in them before even posting your message. You were just looking for ways to get exposure to refer more people to them. I treated you as a genuine person who was wondering. Therefore I spent a great deal of my time pointing out the problems with these and why they are scams. I guess I did that for nothing as the whole question message you posted was just a ruse. So which is it? Did you ignore excellent advice and go right off the cliff, blinded by your desire to make the kind of returns these bogus scams claim? Or did you already investment money in these funds and just posted a bogus "I was wondering that you think" message to get exposure and try and refer others to them? I notice your referral account is in each hyperlink.[/QUOTE] Even if I have already put money into it... and I did, as mentioned in my other post(so no secret here) I still want to find out if anyone has had any experience with the funds good or bad I am not putting my retirement money in it , that's for sure .. but so far I have not found one person that can tell me they lost money with these funds, quite the opposite I found dozens of people praising feederfund and the other funds including the guy who referred me who has been with the fund over 1 year but I think this is the wrong thread to discuss this if my signature is offensive (or whatever) to you just let me know I will delete it"

poldo said: "[QUOTE=LanceJ]It was an opportunity they could have easily captured. Especially for a tiny company like this at a competitive disadvantage. As a small boy playing against big boys, you want as much publicity as possible if you believe you have a superior product. Often, tiny companies don't have it in their budget to get the exposure they need in relation to what their larger competitors are doing. This was an excellent opportunity to get low cost exposure and to get your product out there and better known. Instead, JVC walked away with multiple rewards and a excellent review in Forbes magazine as a result.[/QUOTE] But if the product isn't ready yet what's the use ?? there will always be another review , once LG will have a competitive product they will come out with it this is a fact as it that the chip inside will be a Spatialight lcos speaking of LG what do you think about them ? some people I talked to seem to think they are going to be the next sony"

LanceJ said: "[QUOTE=poldo]Even if I have already put money into it... and I did, as mentioned in my other post(so no secret here) [/QUOTE] Actually, your original post just 2 days ago stated: "I was wondering if anyone has invested in these 2 funds I signed up [B]but I haven't put any money in yet[/B]." Now you are saying that "I have already put money into it". That's sort of what I thought. So because you portrayed yourself to be someone who hadn't put money in yet, I wasted my time trying to warn you before hand when actually you had already put money in and were just trying to drop URL links in your signature with yourself as the referral to get bonuses on anyone who joins. :mad: Well thank you for being honest. I will not be helping you out or answering your questions in the future as our morals of what is right and wrong, good and bad, just and evil, are highly incompatible. Shame on you once, shame on me twice. Good day sir. This is my final message to you."

poldo said: "[QUOTE=LanceJ]Actually, your original post just 2 days ago stated: "I was wondering if anyone has invested in these 2 funds I signed up [B]but I haven't put any money in yet[/B]." Now you are saying that "I have already put money into it". That's sort of what I thought. So because you portrayed yourself to be someone who hadn't put money in yet, I wasted my time trying to warn you before hand when actually you had already put money in and were just trying to drop URL links in your signature with yourself as the referral to get bonuses on anyone who joins. :mad: Well thank you for being honest. I will not be helping you out or answering your questions in the future as our morals of what is right and wrong, good and bad, just and evil, are highly incompatible. Shame on you once, shame on me twice. Good day sir. This is my final message to you.[/QUOTE] Nice good and evil etc... real dramatic :) All I was asking is if anyone had dealt with them in the past that's all READ UP THE WHOLE POST AND DON'T TAKE SMALL SENTENCES OUT OF CONTEXT I quote myself [B]"I am actually putting some money in one of their programs as soon as my egold account is funded "[/B] that was several days ago since then my egold account posted the funds and I invested that is pretty clear to me.. not that I have to justify myself with you but since you started this and in the wrong thread I needed to clarify."

poldo said: "even better [B]"I am actually putting some money in one of their programs as soon as my egold account is funded, i was just wondering if anyone already in these funds have actually got the returns they claim possible"[/B] very simple question to which I got no real answers.. LanceJ , I just hope you misread the post and did not voluntarily tried to make me look bad or discredit my intentions.. not that it matters enough to keep me up at night but I thought I was dealing with a honest person again I hope it was just a mistake in quoting me only partially cheers life is good :)"

LanceJ said: "[QUOTE=poldo] [B]"I am actually putting some money in one of their programs as soon as my egold account is funded "[/B] that was several days ago since then my egold account posted the funds and I invested that is pretty clear to me.. not that I have to justify myself with you but since you started this and in the wrong thread I needed to clarify.[/QUOTE] Ok, fair enough, that's a plausible scenario. I still won't be corresponding with you in the future as your moral system seems to be money at any cost. The underlying message you've failed to grasp is that these funds are scams and ultimately they result in taking money from someone else. They are pyramids where new money that comes in goes to pay the people that were in it first. That's just plain wrong and goes against the very nature of why I am currently volunteering my time here as others are. Why stop with a signature line in your messages? Why not go and setup your own HYIP rating webpage? As soon as you made the decision to refer others to these bogus scams with only having your money in it for 1 day, not even waiting to see if you can recoup your original investment first, failing to mention that the companies that run these HYIPs are in violation of U.S. security laws (which you indicated that you had read what I posted from another forum and it was "old" information so you knew and read this before hand and yet you did not disclose any of this information for newbies here at superiorInvestor.net, I had to do it) and have a long history of running off with peoples money, and that the owner of one of the FeederFunds funds is currently under investigation by the SEC for Securities Fraud (and you make the assumption that just because the SEC hasn't taken action for a year that the company is somehow exhonorated and justified), and that most of these scams are not even licensed businesses, and none of them are licensed with the SEC or any other U.S. consumer protection agency, and that the Abitrage Sports betting fund ran by the FeederFund ran off with everyones money and the FeederFund just adds a new fund to take its place, all of this, you just kept under your hat. I had to take the time to research and disclose all of this. You even admitted to reading this first and knowing this information and yet you failed to mention any of this. If there is even the slightest doubt in your mind to the validity of one of these offshore investments, you shouldn't be recommending them to other people because it's going to hurt other people when the pyramid collapses. But you don't care if it collapses. You'll loose your $1,000, that's acceptable to you, but it may not be to the person you referred. But you don't care, like you said, you'll sleep just fine at night. That's just not the sort of person I'm going to associate with. Somewhere along the way, in your quest for money, you lost your ethics. For your sake, I hope you get them back. Good day sir, and this is my final message to you."

poldo said: "This is the wrong thread to discuss this, I am tired of typing everything twice if anyone wants to follow this, please move you attention [URL=http://www.superiorinvestor.net/showthread.php?p=5234#post5234]here[/URL] PS I did remove my signature to make you happy"

poldo said: " the owner of one of the FeederFunds funds is currently under investigation by the SEC for Securities Fraud sorry I missed this can you give me the link, I thought it was the australian security commission and that it was all cleared up. I didn't know the SEC is investigating them as well"

poldo said: "today's news ....... finally [url]http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/051003/sfm108.html?.v=23[/url]"

SHIFTY101EASY said: "I didnt know that company was located in Novato, CA. I live right down the road from this place. Not that anyone cares. Just seems cool at the moment."

poldo said: "[QUOTE=SHIFTY101EASY]I didnt know that company was located in Novato, CA. I live right down the road from this place. Not that anyone cares. Just seems cool at the moment.[/QUOTE] keep on eye on them for me :D"

SHIFTY101EASY said: "will do! so im kind of confused....they are the sole provider of HDTV chips?"

StockFreak said: "They make small factory installed silicon chips that create a stronger high def picture. An over reaction to disappointing earnings with a lot of temporary bad news, thats usually when i pick companies this speculative up."

poldo said: "[QUOTE=SHIFTY101EASY]will do! so im kind of confused....they are the sole provider of HDTV chips?[/QUOTE] I wish :) [url]http://finance.yahoo.com/q/co?s=HDTV[/url] these are the direct competitors if they can prove their chip is better and cheaper as it shows on paper and they can hang on until LG starts ordering in large quantities than they should be in the black quickly and it should reflect in the stock price I am still in the + side even though their price declined quite a bit I am still buying smaller amounts"

SHIFTY101EASY said: "hmmmm.....very very interesting....ive got a little less than 1k to invest at the moment....im going to cosider them in that case...is there a time table as to when LG is scheduled to make more and larger orders?"

poldo said: "[QUOTE=SHIFTY101EASY]hmmmm.....very very interesting....ive got a little less than 1k to invest at the moment....im going to cosider them in that case...is there a time table as to when LG is scheduled to make more and larger orders?[/QUOTE] the first shipment for testing and early prduction I believe is 22.000 units [url]http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=107739&p=irol-newsArticle&t=Regular&id=664731&[/url] and [url]http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=107739&p=irol-news[/url] Look back in the thread before you make any decisions LanceJ is making very good points about this stock"

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