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Iran stops selling oil in US dollars

AlfredSokol said: "Iran, the fourth largest seller of oil worldwide has stopped selling oil in [url=http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-12/08/content_7219042.htm]dollars[/url] [quote] "In line with the policy of selling crude oil in non-dollar currencies, currently selling our country's oil in U.S. dollars has been completely stopped," Iran's Oil Minister Gholam Hossein Nozari was quoted as saying. "The dollar is an unreliable currency in regards to its devaluation and the loss oil exporters have endured from this trend," he added. "This is why Iran proposed to OPEC members that a currency (for selling oil) would be determined that would be reliable and would not cause any loss to exporter countries," Nozari said. He was referring to the November summit of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) in Saudi Arabia in which Iran proposed that it is necessary to replace the U.S. dollar with other major hard currencies in oil trading. [/quote] How significant of an event is this?"

newinvestor123 said: "Anyone have a chart on which countries sell the most oil? Actually, need information on who sells oil to who, and how much. That would be some nice chart porn..."

Airelon said: "In my view, Iran just fired the first shot in economic warfare and it should be treated as such. As an attack on USD, and the rest of the world. I seriously doubt this was the President of Iran's call, and it had more to do with the promptings of Irans supreme leader. What Iran fails to realize, that if they want to play a game of economic warfare - they just made the first move - and opened themselves up to check on the ol' chessboard. If the USD strengthens, as it has been the last week (And we're getting ready to go into one of the most predictable seasonal rallies for the USD) , and the Euro, which has been showing signs of topping out for nearly two weeks? Then Iran just screwed themselves out of billions of dollars. Possibly trillions. European countries are starting to feel the pinch of the weak USD (which I'm sure is intentional. Poor Airbus is completely screwed) and the Euro is showing signs of this since those companies impact their countries in a huge way. Of course, that's what happens when you base your decisions off of religious hatred of another country and appoint a clergymen for your Supreme Leader, rather than trying to think the thing through. If the USD does fail to strengthen, then there is another option left open to the U.S. The same path England took when China tried the same thing."

AlfredSokol said: "I like your thinking. The "weak dollar" is a weapon, but so is a strong one. Economic warfare is definitely occurring on multiple fronts. This is a definite shot by the bat-shit crazy Iranians and I could see it back-firing on them in a huge way."

Airelon said: "Those morons fail to realize that they just didn't attack the United States. They attacked the worlds wealth. Like it or hate it, the worlds wealth is pegged to the USD. The International Currency [i]is[/i] the USD. When you open up a Swiss Bank account for spreading your assets around (which is the [I]real[/I] option open to those that think we may be in for a really bad time financially, not gold) - you know what your introducing broker will recommend for the currency? USD. Some are starting to suggest the Euro, but they do so carefully, because the Euro is showing signs of topping out. Those complete and utter idiots didn't just attack the US. They tried to attack the U.S. by first attacking the worlds wealthy invidividuals and institutions. Last time I checked? Those that have billions of dollars don't like that screwed with. . . England was patient with China. Twice. But in the end, they just ended up bombing the ever loving **** out of them."

AlfredSokol said: "The Euro can go down, just like any currency down."

Maverick Investor said: "[QUOTE=Airelon;59005]Like it or hate it, the worlds wealth is pegged to the USD. The International Currency [i]is[/i] the USD.[/QUOTE] True! BUT the reason why this is the case because of the tie with oil. The USD is only the international currency because it is the petro-dollar - in other words, the currency in which the global oil market is denominated. If that oil-$ link gets broken, then the USD becomes just another currency. Overnight. There are rumours that one of the reasons behind the disasterous US adventures in Iraq was that Saddam was planning to start selling Iraqi oil in Euros. Now Iran is doing that. It won't take many other big oil producers to start selling in Euros before the petro-dollar disappears and the petro-Euro replaces it. (I can see Chavez making this move next, actually). So I wouldn't get too attached to the USD being the global currency. it may well be that it's had it's day, and is close to being toppled. Cheers!"

AlfredSokol said: "Keep dreaming."

newinvestor123 said: "[QUOTE=AlfredSokol;59901]Keep dreaming.[/QUOTE] LOL... I love how some people just ignore the facts when it suits them.. He makes a very good point, and he is correct. If you wanted to buy oil ten years ago, you first had to buy dollars. This meant that everyone had an interest in keeping the dollar stable because everyone had to have dollar reserves with which to buy their oil. If more countries jump on board with Iran in selling dollars in other currencies, the "mighty Greenback" will be just another currency. It will be a currency which is still backed by the (arguably) strongest economy in the world, but it will no longer have petro-dollar status. Venezuela and Russia are the next on the list if this is going to be a trend, especially if we keep fucking with them. There is a lot of resistance to this happening from those around the world who would rather see the USD continue to be the global reserve currency - But I suspect there is a growing group of people who would rather see it replaced. Only time will tell..."

Airelon said: "Except the other OPEC nations are telling Iran that she's completely full of it, and they are sticking with USD's. The switch is costly due to the exchange. Because guess where the Saudi's accounts are at? And when they dump their wealth into their own bank accounts, they already have an accumulation of USD. The Saudi's and other OPEC members, the ones who aren't doing it for [i]political[/i] issues realize that even with a weak dollar, the USD is their best bet [i]economically[/i]. If they tried to make the switch, they completely screw themselves exchanging what they already have. Especially with recent congestion with the USD Index. They literally could not have picked a worse time to change if they had asked for it. And the worst case scenario for them, is that the USD goes back to the 80 range on the index. In which case, Iran, Venezuela and Russia just shot themselves in the gut economically speaking - and presented the U.S. with a nice shiny present. Of course, that wouldn't be surprising - because those three have proven over time that they are extremely adept at screwing themselves over. Hell, I speak Russian and if it's one thing I can tell you about Russians? They love to be miserable as a people. Russians themselves will tell you that. If they excel in one area? It's being screwed. And the Iranians aren't far behind. How in the name of all that's holy can a country be so screwed up, and yet have the one commodity that every single person needs - I'll never know."

AlfredSokol said: "Russia, Venezuela, and Iran could very well be wrong."

newinvestor123 said: "19 of the leading Clerics in Saudi Arabia [URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/12/17/cnsaudi117.xml"]are calling for the government to end the dollar peg...[/URL] Uh oh... FYI, Kuwait already did this last year if I remember correctly."

Airelon said: "[QUOTE=newinvestor123;60069]19 of the leading Clerics in Saudi Arabia [URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/12/17/cnsaudi117.xml"]are calling for the government to end the dollar peg...[/URL] Uh oh... FYI, Kuwait already did this last year if I remember correctly.[/QUOTE] Well isn't that coincidental. I knew it. Like I said, it wasn't for political reasons. Anything that comes out of the president of Iran's mouth, is because the guy with his hand up his butt, the Supreme Leader (A Muslim Cleric) wants him to say it. It's not for political reasons. It's for religious reasons. And hatred. After all, to Iran, we're "The Great Satan" And now, how suprising is it that gee, members of the same religion want another country that they hold massive influence in to do the same thing. Unreal. Political members of a country being told what to do by religious cleric puppet masters."

newinvestor123 said: "[QUOTE=Airelon;60072]Well isn't that coincidental. I knew it. Like I said, it wasn't for political reasons. Anything that comes out of the president of Iran's mouth, is because the guy with his hand up his butt, the Supreme Leader (A Muslim Cleric) wants him to say it. It's not for political reasons. It's for religious reasons. And hatred. After all, to Iran, we're "The Great Satan" And now, how suprising is it that gee, members of the same religion want another country that they hold massive influence in to do the same thing. Unreal. Political members of a country being told what to do by religious cleric puppet masters.[/QUOTE] Well, as of now it's just a suggestion, but of course it's for political reasons - They're just cloaking their reasons in economics and concerns about inflation. I doubt Saudi Arabia will end the dollar peg, as that would lead the way for the rest of OPEC to do the same. Saudi's relationship with the US is simply too close - For now. The more we mess around in the middle east, the more we will be disliked by Muslims, and the more pressure the people will put on the government to stop supporting the dollar. Even in... whatever kind of dictatorial monarchy.. whatever form of government they have over there, the people have influence. If something doesn't change, I think it's just a matter of time. Anyone know where to find out about popular sentiment towards the US in middle eastern countries? Do they even do polls over there? How about some editorial commentary (in english, of course)?"

Airelon said: "[QUOTE=newinvestor123;60074]Well, as of now it's just a suggestion, but of course it's for political reasons - They're just cloaking their reasons in economics and concerns about inflation. I doubt Saudi Arabia will end the dollar peg, as that would lead the way for the rest of OPEC to do the same. Saudi's relationship with the US is simply too close - For now. The more we mess around in the middle east, the more we will be disliked by Muslims, and the more pressure the people will put on the government to stop supporting the dollar. Even in... whatever kind of dictatorial monarchy.. whatever form of government they have over there, the people have influence. If something doesn't change, I think it's just a matter of time. Anyone know where to find out about popular sentiment towards the US in middle eastern countries? Do they even do polls over there? How about some editorial commentary (in english, of course)?[/QUOTE] Agreed on many points. I think that is why Bush Sr. decided to get out as soon as possible in the first Gulf War. I think he knew if he stayed it would turn into an absolute nightmare. What's interesting about many middle eastern countries, ([I]especially Iran[/I]) is there is no 'one' view. Because Iran is comprised of Persians, Arabs, Aziri's, Gilaki's, Kurds, Mazandarani, Turkmens, and about 15 other groups. And all of them live in different areas, believe different things, and hold different attitudes. Among the Muslims you have different types of Shiites, and different types of Sunni's. There is no "one" Muslim faith. Think of the Suuni's and the Shiites as your division like the Protestant and the Catholics. So you better believe there are different views between them. Some outright hate the other group. 2% of all of those different racial groups, are not Muslim's. So you end up with an extremely diverse group of people. Trying to find consensus is neigh on impossible. There are still groups that want the Shah back believe it or not. But the mullah's and the Ayatollah's still hold tremendous power over all, and are basically - calling the shots."

newinvestor123 said: "[QUOTE=Airelon;60086]Agreed on many points. I think that is why Bush Sr. decided to get out as soon as possible in the first Gulf War. I think he knew if he stayed it would turn into an absolute nightmare.[/QUOTE] There is a video of an interview with Cheney in which he is asked why they didn't topple Saddam then and restructure Iraq. He explicitly states that they didn't want to do that because it would be a "quagmire." Interesting how things change (or don't)... Edit:[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I"] Here it is.[/URL]"

Maverick Investor said: "[QUOTE=Airelon;60072]Well isn't that coincidental. I knew it. Like I said, it wasn't for political reasons. Anything that comes out of the president of Iran's mouth, is because the guy with his hand up his butt, the Supreme Leader (A Muslim Cleric) wants him to say it. It's not for political reasons. It's for religious reasons. And hatred. After all, to Iran, we're "The Great Satan" And now, how suprising is it that gee, members of the same religion want another country that they hold massive influence in to do the same thing. Unreal. Political members of a country being told what to do by religious cleric puppet masters.[/QUOTE] I'm not entirely sure this is fair. For a start, I think the Great Satan thing is a bit 'old hat' now, and they've moved on from that stance. On the other hand, America has hardly been the bestest friend of the Muslim world in recent decades - funding Saddam to wage a 9-year bloody war against Iran, then turning on Saddam as an evil dictator, then making up stories as thin justification for an invasion and occupation that, like you say, has gone a bit tits up to say the least, is not the best way to make peace with the neighbours! From a Muslim world POV (and I'm guessing, as I'm not part of it!) why would they want to stay tied in any way, shape or form to a nation that has behaved so badly towards them for so long? I wouldn't be surprised to see them take a couple of planned economic hits in the next few years in order to move away from trading their oil for dollars. After all, about the only Universal constant is change. Cheers!"

AlfredSokol said: "The King of Saudi Arabia isn't switching off of the dollar, so it doesn't matter what 19 clerics say. If they don't like his decision, they can always strap some dynamite to themselves and ignite the fuse. There is absolutely no indication that anyone is seriously considering this move. Sounds like sour grapes to me."

Airelon said: "[QUOTE=Maverick Investor;60114]I'm not entirely sure this is fair.[/quote] It is. :) [quote]For a start, I think the Great Satan thing is a bit 'old hat' now, and they've moved on from that stance.[/quote] It's old hat to us, but not to them. A few "God is great" chants at a rally where Khomenei's picture is floated around, and the Great Satan is alive and well in the United States. The Iranian people for themselves, if left to their own - don't have much of a problem with us, and enjoy many aspects of our culture. We are, after all, as a country with many Anglo-Saxons - related to the Persians racially. [quote]On the other hand, America has hardly been the bestest friend of the Muslim world in recent decades - funding Saddam to wage a 9-year bloody war against Iran, then turning on Saddam as an evil dictator, then making up stories as thin justification for an invasion and occupation that, like you say, has gone a bit tits up to say the least, is not the best way to make peace with the neighbours! [/quote] Never said it was, and I am by no means pro-U.S. in this situation. Can you imagine what the Catholic situation would do if a foreign power setup shop a few miles from the Vatican? The land itself is holy to Muslims, and the U.S. insists they have a right to be on it. I'm not saying I condone extremist Muslim behaviour, but if someone started screwing around with what I consider holy - yeah, I'd get pretty agitated too, so as you say, I can understand it. But that [i]does not[/i] make the Islamic clerics any less culpable. [quote]From a Muslim world POV (and I'm guessing, as I'm not part of it!) why would they want to stay tied in any way, shape or form to a nation that has behaved so badly towards them for so long? I wouldn't be surprised to see them take a couple of planned economic hits in the next few years in order to move away from trading their oil for dollars.[/quote] Any amount of suffering is worth it to them, and if you are a Shiite extremist - then death and suffering is a great thing in the service of their Allah. I'm just sick of religion, any religion, whoring themselves out to the political powers that be, and trying to be the puppetmaster of a situation for [i]religious[/i] reasons. Doesn't matter if it's Protestant, Catholic or Muslim."

Maverick Investor said: "Amen to that! (Especially your last sentence!) I heard someone say recently that it's odd, isn't it, how both / all sides often invoke the name of God, saying he is on their side - but the one that ultimately proves to be right is the one with the biggest guns and the best tactics. Coincidence?? Cheers!"

DannyBly said: "Reuters obtained an advance copy of a magazine article possibly set to be published next week that quotes the OPEC Secretary saying "Maybe we can price the oil in the euro. It can be done, but it will take time.""

lil dickie said: "I guess it is possible. If the market situations have changed that much then I guess it will change."